117 replies to this topic

[Tsula]

Also given the time line and we know we are not sticking to that now. Time the clans do come into play Clan Steel Viper and Clan Nova Cat will be active.

[101011]

IanDresarie, on 08 July 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

U just won against Prince Victor cause u were able to surprise him and our forces! I´m making myself ready to fight you!

(As known from MW4, Ian Dresari becomes a great hero during the Clan Invasion)

He was a "hero" (albeit an unknown one, hated among his own people) because his family exiled him, not to mention the fact that he fought against the Jaguars...not exactly much of a challenge. Trust me, if this freebirth attempted to challenge the merest of our freshest warriors, he would have found himself outmatched.

[Seth]

Fun fact: By the time MW4: Black Knight had come out, Ian Dresari had gone bat sh*t crazy and turned on his own people.

[Sam Slade]

CLAN IRON MANATEE

will kill you and eat your sea grass... fear us.

[Ettibber]

Adridos, on 30 May 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

And as far as Scorpions go, they fell during the Wars of Reaving

scorps went and formed the imperio del escorpion with what remained of the of the ice hellions

[Morloka]

The Clans whole way of life and ideals of warfare where their downfall, the writing was on the walls from the very beginning. The had surprise, they had better skills, they had better tech. But they threw it all away with this honor nonsense. Let me quote Col Kurt "Morloka" Henry (me) "The only thing unfair in a fight? That would be me getting my a$$ kicked, otherwise all is fair in love and war."

[Dark DeLaurel]

Niko Snow, on 25 April 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Attention Sibko!

The only known Clans in BattleTech Canon during the current timeline include:

• Clan Blood Spirit
  
• Clan Burrock
  
• Clan Cloud Cobra
  
• Clan Coyote
  
• Clan Diamond Shark (formerly Clan Sea Fox)
  
• Clan Fire Mandrill
  
• Clan Ghost Bear
  
• Clan Goliath Scorpion
  
• Clan Hell's Horses
  
• Clan Ice Hellion
  
• Clan Jade Falcon
  
• Clan Nova Cat
  
• Clan Smoke Jaguar
  
• Clan Snow Raven
  
• Clan Star Adder
  
• Clan Steel Viper
  
• Clan Wolf

Only those in Bold are known to be within preparation for Operation Revival.




Thank you.

I just would like to point this out

Quote

Though the Horses did not win a place in the invasion, they did manage to find a way to obtain worlds in the Inner Sphere. When Khan Vladimir Ward of the Wolves started the Harvest Trials, Khan Fletcher convinced him to bid Hell's Horses units in contract bids (much as the Hell's Horses had done with the Coyotes) without first winning those units to the Wolves. Khan Ward agreed and ceded three worlds in the Clan Wolf Occupation Zone: Stanzach, Vorarlberg, and Engadin to Clan Hell's Horses

This is taken from here and is also referenced in one of the Sourcebooks (can not remember which one at the moment since mine are all packed up and in storage).

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Edited by Dark DeLaurel, 12 July 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I think you forgot:

Quote

The only known Clans in BattleTech Canon during the current timeline include:

Quote

Only those in Bold are known to be within preparation for Operation Revival.

In 3050 at the beginning of the invasion, Vlad is not Khan of the Wolves, he does not even have his Bloodname yet. At this point there are NO Horses in the IS until they were taken as bondsmen & made abtakha by one of the Big Four.

Morloka, on 11 July 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

The Clans whole way of life and ideals of warfare where their downfall, the writing was on the walls from the very beginning. The had surprise, they had better skills, they had better tech. But they threw it all away with this honor nonsense. Let me quote Col Kurt "Morloka" Henry (me) "The only thing unfair in a fight? That would be me getting my a$$ kicked, otherwise all is fair in love and war."

Uh no, they Clans lost because they were written to lose. It had nothing to do with honor, especially since they have exceptions to their rules & the Big Four basically threw zellbrigen to the wind, early on in the campaign. We have seen from Operation: Klondike that ALL the Clans, attacking ALL targets result in success,. If they won, the writers would have nowhere to go. The Clans appear. The Clans invade. The Clans get Terra. Pack up your stuff & find a new job we have nothing else to write about.

The Clans beat the **** out of the IS & ComStar was written in save the day to keep plot-lines going in the BT universe. Even after the YoP, it is documented that the Clans still outperformed their IS counterparts.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 19 January 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[CHH Badkarma]

It seems altered reality and selective memories abound here. Standard invading clans did have reserve clans to call in as back up. However seeing as how pgi cant even properly bring things into the timeline, AT the proper time, I do not see any other accurate details being brought in. Much like the reimagined star trek, this is reimagined mechwarrior. alternate reality included.

[Jaroth Corbett]

The Horses were never even reserves. The Steel Vipers were listed as the reserve Clan after the initial bidding in 3048-3049. When Ulric became ilKhan he bumped up the Vipers to assault along with the Nova Cats & placed the Diamond Sharks as the new reserve Clan. At this time, the Horses are non-existent as an IS entity.

These are facts not altered reality or selective memory.

[CHH Badkarma]

Did I say anything about the Horses? No, I did not.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Yes I am the one that mentioned the Hell's Horses, mainly to point out that their initial invading Clans line up has a few issues, I will leave it to members of the Steel Vipers, Nova Cats, and Diamond Sharks to speak for themselves.

[dal10]

Jaroth Winson, on 12 July 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I think you forgot:





In 3050 at the beginning of the invasion, Vlad is not Khan of the Wolves, he does not even have hisBloodname yet. At this point there are NO Horses in the IS until they were taken as bondsmen & made abtakha by one of the Big Four.



Uh no, they Clans lost because they were written to lose. It had nothing to do with honor, especially since they have exceptions to their rules & the Big Four basically threw zellbrigen to the wind, early on in the campaign. We have seen from Operation: Klondike that ALL the Clans, attacking ALL targets result in success,. If they won, the writers would have nowhere to go. The Clans appear. The Clans invade. The Clans get Terra. Pack up your stuff & find a new job we have nothing else to write about.

The Clans beat the **** out of the IS & ComStar was written in save the day to keep plotlines going in the BT universe. Even after the YoP, it is documented that the Clans still outperformed their IS counterparts.

the clan invasion should not have succeeded as half as well as it did. during the american war for independence, it took roughly 3-4 months to cross the atlantic. in order to get from the kerensky cluster to the top of the inner sphere took nearly a year. reinforcing it would have been near impossible. the clans lose a cluster more than expecting. it would take over a YEAR to get that cluster replaced. They should have stripped defending units off the lower section of the sphere and assaulted worlds with 4-5 regiments a piece. the clans simply can't replace the loss of a galaxy or 2 of reserve troops. even at the loss of 10 to 15 regiments the inner sphere would come out way ahead. cause for example, the ghost bears had 13 galaxies of troops (one would assume their numbers would stay relatively constant.) you take out 2 of those, and all of a sudden the ghost bears lose more than a seventh of their troops, which would take at least an entire year to replace, and that is solely for the equipment. sibkos are only brought up every 5 years. so it could take them a decade or more to replace those 2 units (even if you upped the rate they produced sibkos would still take 2 decades to produce needed numbers). to put it simply, The clans invasion of the inner sphere got drastically farther than it was physically capable of going. to top it off if the IS went scorched earth and destroyed supplies behind them as they retreated, you would have starved the invasion out of existence. you simply can't sustain an army an entire year away with supplies from home. so yeah, battletech didn't invent comstar's army to save the inner sphere. they invented impossible logistics to allow the clans some measure of success, where they should have had none.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Jason Radick, on 12 July 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Did I say anything about the Horses? No, I did not.

You did not have to.

• LocationCHH Sleipnir. Nadir jump point. Coreward Sector

and your sig is Hell's Horses & seeing as it was right after my reply to your Horses comrade.............. come on.

[Roster]

You forgot "Clan Honey Boo-Boo""

Sorry could not resist

[CHH Badkarma]

Jaroth Winson, on 12 July 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

You did not have to.

• LocationCHH Sleipnir. Nadir jump point. Coreward Sector

and your sig is Hell's Horses & seeing as it was right after my reply to your Horses comrade.............. come on.

I was replying to what was being talked about regarding clans in general. Get off your soap box, put the ax you are grinding away and contribute.

[Jaroth Corbett]

An axe to grind implies I caught feelings. Get over yourself. The flow of the convo went a certain way, your sig identifies you as a Horseman. If you say you meant one thing when I thought you meant another then fine. You are not important enough for me to grind any axe.

dal10, on 12 July 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

the clan invasion should not have succeeded as half as well as it did. during the american war for independence, it took roughly 3-4 months to cross the atlantic. in order to get from the kerensky cluster to the top of the inner sphere took nearly a year. reinforcing it would have been near impossible. the clans lose a cluster more than expecting. it would take over a YEAR to get that cluster replaced. They should have stripped defending units off the lower section of the sphere and assaulted worlds with 4-5 regiments a piece. the clans simply can't replace the loss of a galaxy or 2 of reserve troops. even at the loss of 10 to 15 regiments the inner sphere would come out way ahead. cause for example, the ghost bears had 13 galaxies of troops (one would assume their numbers would stay relatively constant.) you take out 2 of those, and all of a sudden the ghost bears lose more than a seventh of their troops, which would take at least an entire year to replace, and that is solely for the equipment. sibkos are only brought up every 5 years. so it could take them a decade or more to replace those 2 units (even if you upped the rate they produced sibkos would still take 2 decades to produce needed numbers). to put it simply, The clans invasion of the inner sphere got drastically farther than it was physically capable of going. to top it off if the IS went scorched earth and destroyed supplies behind them as they retreated, you would have starved the invasion out of existence. you simply can't sustain an army an entire year away with supplies from home. so yeah, battletech didn't invent comstar's army to save the inner sphere. they invented impossible logistics to allow the clans some measure of success, where they should have had none.

The point is if Operation Revival was prosecuted the same way that Klondike was, the Clans would win but there would be nowhere to go.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 13 July 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[dal10]

Jaroth Winson, on 13 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

The point is if Operation Revival was prosecuted the same way that Klondike was, the Clans would win but there would be nowhere to go.

the logistics are still not there. you couldn't sustain that kind of force at that kind of distance without decades of dedicated preparation the smaller clans could not hold anything and still attack. they controlled 10s of worlds at best. now try to hundreds if not thousands of planets. at the size they were when the invasion stopped you are looking at an absolute MINIMUM of 4 galaxies defending per clan. and even then it would be pathetically easy to take back of planet. ideally they should have 8-9 defending. using 8 that leaves them 5 offensive galaxies. each galaxy is roughly the equivalent to 7 regiments.or 35 for all 5. the inner sphere likely has around 500 regiments of mechs. plus more in vehicles and infantry. so lets assume equal amounts they are facing 1500 regiments of troops. to face 1500 regiments, they have 100 offensive galaxies worth about 700 regiments of mechs. but the thing is, assuming you do better than the numbers say and both sides destroy half of each other. 750 regiments for 50 galaxies. (a kill ratio of about 15 to 1.) who can replace those loses faster? the inner sphere could reconstitute any infantry regiment in months and any armor + battlemech in years. it would take the clans at least 2 decades to fully reconstitute those lost units. to put it simply. the invasion on the timeline given in lore was not unrealistic. it was flat out impossible. the logistics are impossible. you couldn't hope to replace the amount of material they went through from that distance with the ammunition cost alone would take more shipping than the clans had. you are talking about millions of tons of ammo alone. 100 times 375 times probably 5 tons per mech (that is short.) you are looking at 187.5 thousand pounds of ammo for each engagement. (extrapolated) assuming at least 2 engagements per galaxy per world. (assuming the entire galaxy is assigned and uses at least half its ammunitions.) you are looking at 187 tons of ammo per galaxy per world at 2000 worlds and 100 galaxies. that puts you in the gigatons at least for ammo. not to mention food and other necessities such as spare (none of which can be take from the IS until later. to even have that much material stockpiled isn't simply unlikely it is basically unrealistic. because the shear amount of material in one spot would get you raiders from EVERY single clan trying to take a giant city sized supply depot(now try to move it a whole year away via jumpship). to put in simply, the logistics aren't there.

sorry if it is kind of rambly, my thoughts aren't clear at the best of times.

Edited by dal10, 13 July 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Actually it is. No matter how big or small, if ALL the Clans attacked ALL the SS they would have won simply by strangling aid, cutting off cooperation & depleting resources. During the YoP, when Jaime Wolf gathered the House Leaders on Outreach, an agreement was reached where the FWL would provide 90% of the new mech designs, mech modification kits & other supplies etc. to the FC & the DC.

Quote

Thomas Marik rose slowly, revealing his sickly little boy seated behind him. The dark circles under the boy's eyes mirrored his father's haggard expression. "Colonel, I do not dispute or question the bravery of Kai Allard. Though I do not have Lady Romano's objections to the suggested plan, I do have my own reservations. I cannot fail to recognize our common threat, but I am uneasy about putting your new 'Mech weaponry into production within the Free Worlds League. You want me to export ninety percent of what we produce to the Federated Commonwealth and Draconis Combine."

Had Thomas Marik been contending with Clans in his own realm, this never would have taken place.

Romano Liao refused to join the new pact between the leaders simply because the Clans were not her problem.

Quote

Romano pulled herself erect. "So this is it, then? You all unite against me! Very well. I shall deal with the Clans when they set foot in my realm, and not before." With that, she turned on her heel and stalked from the room. Stunned, the rest of her entourage followed slowly. Kai noticed Isis Marik watching Sun-Tzu intently, and he saw his cousin nod to her as he walked past.

I think she would have been singing a different tune had she experienced what the FC, DC & FRR were going through.

What people keep forgetting is a conquered world is just that, a conquered world. it is no longer yours. It is now the property of the enemy to use the resources & facilities that you now lack. He grows stronger as you grow weaker. To put it into context, say a planet has a mech production factory that produces Awesomes, The Clans from the onset made it a priority to capture worlds intact & not obliterate everything. Since the Clans use regular mechs for their second line Galaxies, their garrison troops have spanking new mechs off of the assembly line. By contrast, whatever SS that was counting on filling an order of a new Awesome assault mechs to outfit a Battalion or Regiment is suddenly cut off at the knees.

The workers are taken as bondsmen & the work keeps on going just for new employers.

[dal10]

you are telling me that the inner sphere would LET them take factories? if we are going all out here (on both sides) then the IS would fight back in a scorched earth policy.the clan would gain debts not assets. they took the strongest clans and threw them at the inner sphere. your telling me that much smaller clans could be just as effective. and to put it simply, how are the clans going to attack the bottom of the inner sphere, are they going to go around? that would add a year or 2 to travel time. so some clan like blood spirit is going to attack unsupported on a realm 2-3 years away from home? because that supply line would be totally doable.

hell even better, i would let them take a military base or 2, one that has been seeded with explosives. would the clans even dare to use something that is already there after losing an entire cluster or 2 to a bomb? after losing a dozen or more planets, any semi-intelligent commander would realize that they are not going to be able to hold until they get more forces. anything that could be used by the clans would be razed to the ground. let them have a spaceport with a nuke under it. let them lose entire galaxies to traps. all they could do is hold the orbitals with warships. then you build suicide fighters laden with dirty bombs and ram them into said warships. if you were willing to go all out, it doesn't matter what the clans do. they would lose almost everything, if not everything, to try and take the sphere.