253 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

Void Angel, on 06 May 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I wish you guys well - hero mechs are just way too expensive for what you get, in my view. I'm paying more than I would for an actual game miniature that I can sit on my desk, dress up in a top hat, or whatever...

As for the Atlas comparison, I wouldn't worry. Atlases have different handling characterisitcs than Stalkers, so even if they had the exact same weapon hardpoints, it still wouldn't be the same.

well firepower wise a gun i the only thing missing from those damage monkeys that the atlas has really, is it just 1 hardpoint, multiple ones or what???

[Just wanna play]

lol kinda figures its called misery

[Void Angel]

I don't know about the Hero 'mech - but even if the hardpoints are the same, you still have different torso twist arcs, range of arm movement... It'll be different enough.

[Just wanna play]

just curious, am i the only that thinks of the walkers from war of the worlds when i see a ppc or large laser stalker?

Void Angel, on 06 May 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

I don't know about the Hero 'mech - but even if the hardpoints are the same, you still have different torso twist arcs, range of arm movement... It'll be different enough.

wonder if it will have a neck brace like all the other variants (aside from 3f)

[Robdillard]

These tatics have largely come about as a result of ECM. People favoring direct fire weapon in large part to having almost no other option. In addition to the massive nerfs to missiles that they are working on changing.

Things are heading back to making things balanced as of may 21st(BAP negating ECM within 150m) and missile speed increasing.

Brawlers universally equipping BAP will again change the dynamic of the game. I can see this game getting more balanced as it goes on though the transitions can sometimes be rough.

Still having fun,

Robdillard

[Just wanna play]

Robdillard, on 06 May 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

These tatics have largely come about as a result of ECM. People favoring direct fire weapon in large part to having almost no other option. In addition to the massive nerfs to missiles that they are working on changing.

Things are heading back to making things balanced as of may 21st(BAP negating ECM within 150m) and missile speed increasing.

Brawlers universally equipping BAP will again change the dynamic of the game. I can see this game getting more balanced as it goes on though the transitions can sometimes be rough.

Still having fun,

Robdillard

yeah imo lrms, that serve as arty in a way, are as of now 2 weak and inaccurate to be used as effectively as it should be, 90 missiles hitting you spreads only 63 damage all over IF it hits, while 6 ppc stalkers hit you in one specific limb when ever it wants

[Primetimex]

Robdillard, on 06 May 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

These tactics have largely come about as a result of ECM. People favoring direct fire weapon in large part to having almost no other option. In addition to the massive nerfs to missiles that they are working on changing.

This is exactly what led me to getting a Highlander AND learning a new playstyle - having gone from a purely brawling mech playstyle (Stalker, Atlas etc). Sick and tired of closing in to effective brawling range and getting smashed by ECM, poptarts and what have you.

With PPC and ballistics, you put the hurt into the enemy well before they get into range - by the time they get within 540m you pick them off at your leisure.

This and also the uselessness of the missiles (LRM,SRM,SSRMs) due to the repeated nerfing - why waste time with missiles when you can fire off direct hits from 1,000m's away???

Again, the nerfing in this game is also what partially causes the imbalances that you see now ... they are in direct response to other game mechanics that were not addressed for a LONG time.

Using a Highlander with JJs also made me more situationally aware, and I actually enjoy a much more mobile assault mech with a jump jet, it's like shooting in three dimensions instead of trudging up on 2 legs and doing peek-a-boos.

Edited by Primetimex, 06 May 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Alpha087]

Just wanna play, on 01 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

you guys are kinda late to the conversation saying that don't ya think??
also, imo on your list there you should include fixing that ***** internet code so faster lights (spider, jenner, deaths knell, cicada) can go at the speed they are designed and balanced for, right now max in game speed is 150kph, and all engines letting mechs go faster (with speed tweak, i think you can go max 146kph with out it) are not currently in game, mainly because they would cause lag problems and such, so im sure lights are easier to ht then they should be, and the spider esp is pretty weak since its made for speed and is just as fast as a jenner with more then twice the firepower

So by your logic, with it being 'easy' to hit a light with dual AC20... Doesn't that mean it's easy to hit any mech with dual AC20 then? What does the game really turn into at that point, when there's no viable long range options (if poptards were nerfed entirely), and AC40 builds being one-shot killers? The new 'meta' would be AC40 jagers and K2's. Anyone who uses an aimbot would suddenly become a lot more obvious (And people do use them). Compared to the percentage of players who currently complain about getting shot up by PPCs because they insist on not using cover, and/or don't know how to counter it otherwise... I can promise you that the number of people being upset because this game being turned into MechWarrior Call of Duty after being one-shotted constantly will be vastly greater, and potentially a game-killer.

That's not even to mention that if, and only if, aimbots did become more apparent with AC40 builds becoming the fruit of the month, the "Must be a cheater" phenomenon would forever scar this game. If you don't know what that is, then go play just about any popular PC shooter.

[Void Angel]

Just wanna play, on 06 May 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

yeah imo lrms, that serve as arty in a way, are as of now 2 weak and inaccurate to be used as effectively as it should be, 90 missiles hitting you spreads only 63 damage all over IF it hits, while 6 ppc stalkers hit you in one specific limb when ever it wants

Actually, with typical results 90 missiles would deal around 85 damage spread out over your 'mech. This is because LRMs don't just do 0.7 damage per missile, but splash damage up to .28 to any components in a splash radius around the impact (this damage falls off with distance from center, and makes it hard to accurately theorycraft LRM damage from the raw weapon damage numbers; check out this post.) This is still too low to make these weapons viable for their tonnage because of how the damage is spread - using LRMs right now is a bit like throwing wet kittens, which is why you don't see people being terribly effective with them.

Sure, I know; some people still think they're being effective because they pull out moderate damage numbers. But the problem here is the same as it was with Elemental Druids in Diablo2 - it's all really pretty until you realize that nothing actually dies.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 May 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Chrithu]

Poptarting is fine. It involves skill to do.

What I despise is that annoying habbit of bunnyhopping during brawls. In my view the recharge time before you can jumpjet again after completely using up "fuel" should be doubled at least. Jumping should be a means of gaining a better tactical position and use cover and not a means of ******* up an opponents aim by panically pressing your finger on the jump key because you were dumb enough to let them close in and are ****** because your mech only has PPC and Gauss.

[Void Angel]

Uhm... why did these hypothetical players hug a jump-capable 'mech in the first place? Did they panic, too? =)

[StalaggtIKE]

Still somewhat pasty taste. Will go nuclear in your mouth if left in the toaster too long. Still a cheap meal if low funds.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 07 May 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[oldradagast]

Jason Parker, on 07 May 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Poptarting is fine. It involves skill to do.

What I despise is that annoying habbit of bunnyhopping during brawls. In my view the recharge time before you can jumpjet again after completely using up "fuel" should be doubled at least. Jumping should be a means of gaining a better tactical position and use cover and not a means of ******* up an opponents aim by panically pressing your finger on the jump key because you were dumb enough to let them close in and are ****** because your mech only has PPC and Gauss.

Hehehe... that's my main use of Jump Jets on my Highlander, but that's because it has powerful brawling ability (2 SRM 6's and 2 SRM4's in addition to the autocannon, etc.).

Once within brawling range, I use the jump jets to perform short "skips" to foul up the other guy's aim, particularly on his torso weapons. It also spreads his damage more - legging can happen when piloting a jump-jet Mech. I don't see how this tactic is a problem since I'm within brawling range and thus fully vulnerable to attack vs. hiding behind cover 90% of the time (only showing up to deal a flying alpha strike.) Hey, if the other guy can't aim at a slow flying Highlander in close range, he deserves what he gets, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 07 May 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[Dalorante Corbanis]

The poptarting does not exist in the battletech universe the JJS serves only has to cross(spend) obstacles or has to lay ambush in height.

[Bigboij]

If your having problems with poptarts you need to change your tactics and adapt, at first yea they were a pain, but now i dont find them any more of a problem then anything else on the field ( pure brawler player here)

[Just wanna play]

Void Angel, on 06 May 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Actually, with typical results 90 missiles would deal around 85 damage spread out over your 'mech. This is because LRMs don't just do 0.7 damage per missile, but splash damage up to .28 to any components in a splash radius around the impact (this damage falls off with distance from center, and makes it hard to accurately theorycraft LRM damage from the raw weapon damage numbers; check out this post.) This is still too low to make these weapons viable for their tonnage because of how the damage is spread - using LRMs right now is a bit like throwing wet kittens, which is why you don't see people being terribly effective with them.

Sure, I know; some people still think they're being effective because they pull out moderate damage numbers. But the problem here is the same as it was with Elemental Druids in Diablo2 - it's all really pretty until you realize that nothing actually dies.

they are great at softening targets at least, esp when your in a medium supporting the big guys

[Void Angel]

That's the thing, though; they're really not that great for softening targets. If you take 22 tons of launcher (2 ALRM20s) and smack someone with it, and all the missiles land, you'll be doing around 38 points of damage. 3 ERPPCs (a nearly equal tonnage) will "only" deal 30 damage - but that damage will be all in one place. And this comparison is horribly skewed against the ERPPC. In real combat conditions, you're going to miss a lot more with LRMS than you are with ERPPCs. My accuracy with my LRM20s from my hybrid Atlas was a little over 33% - and that was a direct line of sight build (I used heavy beam weapons to supplement my LRMs er, heavily.) My ERPPC accuracy is over 60%; plus snipers beat LRMs, since they can exit cover, fire, and return before the missiles land. Factor in the above numbers, and you end up with the LRMs doing 12.5 damage/volley, compared to the ERPPC doing 18.

Certainly this comparison doesn't "prove" that one of these weapons is always better; all weapons are situational - we call it "range." However, even from the standpoint of supporting fire for other 'mechs (which is their specialty,) LRMs still fall a bit short. And of course PGI is aware of this; they're working on fixing the clustering, and they're buffing LRM flight speed by 20%. This last change is quite useful, and will help a ton; but once the improper clustering of missiles is fixed, I'd still be shocked if LRMs don't get a boost to damage in order to bring them back into line.

[Just wanna play]

Void Angel, on 07 May 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

That's the thing, though; they're really not that great for softening targets. If you take 22 tons of launcher (2 ALRM20s) and smack someone with it, and all the missiles land, you'll be doing around 38 points of damage. 3 ERPPCs (a nearly equal tonnage) will "only" deal 30 damage - but that damage will be all in one place. And this comparison is horribly skewed against the ERPPC. In real combat conditions, you're going to miss a lot more with LRMS than you are with ERPPCs. My accuracy with my LRM20s from my hybrid Atlas was a little over 33% - and that was a direct line of sight build (I used heavy beam weapons to supplement my LRMs er, heavily.) My ERPPC accuracy is over 60%; plus snipers beat LRMs, since they can exit cover, fire, and return before the missiles land. Factor in the above numbers, and you end up with the LRMs doing 12.5 damage/volley, compared to the ERPPC doing 18.

Certainly this comparison doesn't "prove" that one of these weapons is always better; all weapons are situational - we call it "range." However, even from the standpoint of supporting fire for other 'mechs (which is their specialty,) LRMs still fall a bit short. And of course PGI is aware of this; they're working on fixing the clustering, and they're buffing LRM flight speed by 20%. This last change is quite useful, and will help a ton; but once the improper clustering of missiles is fixed, I'd still be shocked if LRMs don't get a boost to damage in order to bring them back into line.

what do you mean "fix clustering" whats wrong with it now???? i remember loving them on the trial atlas (still my fav mech, havent been able to afford it yet tho) they made a great weapon to use while slowly approaching the fight, now something just seems...... off

they almost seem there best when some one is like 400m away which to me seems weird, and lrms at least can do more damage at super long ranges (think 1000m+), kinda

[Dazzer]

well I have change my tactic totally due to pop tarts. I have reluctantly put my beloved Awesome to bed and got out my X-5 Cicada. A pop tart has trouble hitting a mech that's doing 133 KPH. I stripped all the weps and installed one ERPPC. The heat is amusingly manageable.

I generally flank the pop tarts gun line and come up behind them I try to get close in on them under they 90mm min rage , I have seen several freeze up for a second when I shoot them and do damage under 90mm you can almost ´hear´them say ´WTF?¨

I die lots but its great fun. So remember little poptart´s keep one eye over your shoulder for a speedy honorer y light with a PPC of his own.

[Void Angel]

Just wanna play, on 07 May 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

what do you mean "fix clustering" whats wrong with it now???? i remember loving them on the trial atlas (still my fav mech, havent been able to afford it yet tho) they made a great weapon to use while slowly approaching the fight, now something just seems...... off

they almost seem there best when some one is like 400m away which to me seems weird, and lrms at least can do more damage at super long ranges (think 1000m+), kinda

Too many missiles are targeting the center torso. That's part of why they went to the current damage scheme. Basically what happened was this: missile damage was spiking sometimes in order to do crazy, unfair amounts of damage. It had to do with the splash damage system - but when PGI took out splash damage in testing, they found that too many of a given missile volley were targeting the center of the target 'mech, instead of spreading out. Since the LRM situation needed to be fixed (I've heard reports of 'mechs pulling down 1800 damage matches,) they nerfed the damage numbers to their current levels as an interim measure. Check out the hotfix announcement; it's explained there. Essentially, once they get the missiles to spread right, they can fix missile damage - because what seems off to you is that the current damage is just too low.