253 replies to this topic

[Country Gravy]

Jumpjets should last a lot longer and allow for about 3-5 times the jump time that they offer now. That would allow for even more threads about people leaving the game because they can't deal with a certain tactic. Once the people that cannot into changing tactics leave, change them back to how they are now and problem solved.

[Lord of All]

Country Gravy, on 28 April 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Jumpjets should last a lot longer and allow for about 3-5 times the jump time that they offer now. That would allow for even more threads about people leaving the game because they can't deal with a certain tactic. Once the people that cannot into changing tactics leave, change them back to how they are now and problem solved.

Do you talk before forming a thought as well?

[Country Gravy]

Lord of All, on 28 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Do you talk before forming a thought as well?

Do you respond to all ridiculous posts with the same reckless abandon, or are you having an off day?

[Lord of All]

Country Gravy, on 28 April 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Do you respond to all ridiculous posts with the same reckless abandon, or are you having an off day?

Yes and no.

[NRP]

Helmstif, on 27 April 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

And there're back-biting Spiders. Which actually kinda works.

I would go so far as to say any light mech is a very effective counter for poptarts. I've spectated so many Jenners, Ravens, Commandos, Spiders, and Cicadas that have just laid waste to those fools who sit in one area and pogo like clowns. And there is always focus fire from teammates.

And really, I haven't seen a lot of poptarting lately (i.e. mech staying in once place jump sniping). I've seen a lot of Highlanders jump in the middle of combat (to get a clear shot, clear an obstacle, or escape). IMO, this is a valid use of JJs and what makes the HGN, Catapults, and Cataphract 3Ds unique.

So I don't think JJs need to be nerfed. Nerfing is not the way of man.

[Just wanna play]

NRP, on 28 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

I would go so far as to say any light mech is a very effective counter for poptarts. I've spectated so many Jenners, Ravens, Commandos, Spiders, and Cicadas that have just laid waste to those fools who sit in one area and pogo like clowns. And there is always focus fire from teammates.

And really, I haven't seen a lot of poptarting lately (i.e. mech staying in once place jump sniping). I've seen a lot of Highlanders jump in the middle of combat (to get a clear shot, clear an obstacle, or escape). IMO, this is a valid use of JJs and what makes the HGN, Catapults, and Cataphract 3Ds unique.

So I don't think JJs need to be nerfed. Nerfing is not the way of man.

Wait, cataphract 3D... has JJ!?!?!?! better yet, there a phract with JJ!!?!?!?! maybe buying the 2x was a mistake...

[NRP]

Yep. I believe it was the original poptart.

[Lord of All]

NRP, on 28 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

....

So I don't think JJs need to be nerfed. Nerfing is not the way of man.

Making them work as intended is not nerfing, they are completely unrealistic ATM. They are not JETPACKS.

And inall reality I love poptards. they pop when I cook them.

[NRP]

I disagree. I don't think there is anything wrong with JJs or how they are used.

There will always be something to gripe about. When I started playing this game, ECM was the root of all evil, then it was BrawlWarrior Online, then it was LRMAggedon, now poptarts are the devil. Trust me, soon it will be something else, and the same tears will flow.

[Hex Pallett]

NRP, on 28 April 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

There will always be something to gripe about. When I started playing this game, ECM was the root of all evil, then it was BrawlWarrior Online, then it was LRMAggedon, now poptarts are the devil. Trust me, soon it will be something else, and the same tears will flow.

ECM was nerfed by PPC-EMP and extended TAG range. Excessive brawling has never been too much of a problem except for Splatpult, and thanks to the Great Missile Nerf SRM is not exactly as powerful as before, IMO slightly less than reasonable. Lurmageddon was caused probably by the dev forgetting to reduce the numerical damage while increasing the splash damage, and now they're over-nerfed. Just saying.

[Edwyndham]

You'd think the recoil from firing a Gauss round mid-air would spin your mech around like a whacked pinata.

You might also think a poptarter getting hit in the face by ballistics while mid-air would make him fall back on his ***.

And hey, propelling yourself upwards with the force of a space rocket might involve some G forces that make it hard to aim with a joystick, I dunno. Might make the cockpit rattle a lot, too.

[Eboli]

A light mech or two playing squirrel in the rear flank of the enemy has a very good chance of distracting the enemy to allow the friendly brawlers to push forward. It is amazing how a red triangle or two running around there vicinity wil brake up an enemy formation. All is required is a little bit of co-ordination within the group and it can work very well.

In my opinion leave JJs alone. Light mechs that rely upon JJs will also be affected in a much more negative way than the Jump Jetting assaults. It is hard enough now being a light.

Cheers!
Eboli.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Helmstif, on 26 April 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Haven't touched MWO for almost a week due to the PTSD caused by mass-poptarting during the AvW weekend.

So, are there still like eight poptarting Highlanders every game right now? Are people starting to play it with brain?

Speaking of which, I find my 2xPPC+ERPPC AWS-9M stands a fair chance against poptarting thanks to its ridiculous speed and giant shield-arm. But still, it can't hold up more than two of those mustards.

I'm thinking about a possible way to make poptarting far less viable. Since jumpjets technically, in reality, will generate massive heat, what if we make jumpjetting totally lock down all the internal heatsinks, and lasts for like 3 seconds after JJ is turned off?

I run a 4 ppc k2 and a Gaussomets primarily and havent had a single issue with poptarts. I have a similar build to yours on a less healthy mech(my k2) and i can compensate. Just use cover and dont walk around like a dumbass and you will be unaffected.

[Hex Pallett]

I built a poptart.

I converted my 733 into 1xGauss, 2xPPC and 4xSSRM2. Had three matches, topped three.

I have fallen to the dark side.

[Just wanna play]

Helmstif, on 28 April 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I built a poptart.

I converted my 733 into 1xGauss, 2xPPC and 4xSSRM2. Had three matches, topped three.

I have fallen to the dark side.

:/ wheres that report button.........

[NRP]

Helmstif, on 28 April 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

I built a poptart.

I converted my 733 into 1xGauss, 2xPPC and 4xSSRM2. Had three matches, topped three.

I have fallen to the dark side.

About freakin time!

[Just wanna play]

NRP, on 28 April 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

About freakin time!

reported

lol jk

only reported helmstif

[Threat Doc]

Helmstif, on 26 April 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Plus making jumping more unstable and aiming harder. I feel like lifting a 90t object with rockets would not be stable in any way..

Absolutely correct. I hate to say this, because it hails back to October 2011 and beyond to when we were all talking about the difference between CoD and random hits, and twitch-hitting. We were right back then, and now the reasons for why are beginning to come forward. If the developers really are trying to stick with the lore of the game, they would take into account that the Damage Interpreter/ Battle Computers are, on average, 150+ years old, are shaky, have been repaired, replaced, and strung together with spit and bailing wire over potentially 500 years of warfare. That's why the random.

Quote

EDIT: for those Battletech TT veterans out there, has jump-sniping ever been an viable tactic in the TT/books?

No. According to the rules, effectively, it could have been done in the tabletop, but unless someone really had a great position, it was considered pretty stupid to remain anywhere for too long in a single battle. Besides, the difficulty of hitting anything while jumping was nearly impossible, and shouldn't be easy at all.

TruePoindexter, on 26 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

In fact JJ in TT are wildly more powerful than in any of the MW games. The JJ we have right now are puny by comparison.

I would have to say that you are utterly absolutely wrong about that. The difference being that, in a tabletop game, the players have time to think through their moves. Jump-sniping is something that should be enormously hard to do. Alternately, in the tabletop game, anyone who jumps is 17% more likely to be hit than being able to hit.

Uspez, on 27 April 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

The anti-poptart/JJ comments may as well be saying, "make the game less fun".

Was the game less fun before pop-tarding? Did you know it was less fun? How do you know it would become less fun if jump jets were changed to work the way they're supposed to work, and their effects on the 'Mech, and not like those in MechWarrior II or IV, which were farcical, at best.

Quote

JJs are great when brawling, ERPPCs are also great when brawling so lets nerf both to stop poptarts but at the same time hurt brawlers and all other viable builds that use JJs and ERPPCs???? No.

How, precisely, do you believe changing them to work correctly, the way things have been discussed in this thread already, would hurt brawlers and other viable builds at the same time it stops or suffers jump-snipers?

[Uspez]

Kay Wolf, on 28 April 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Was the game less fun before pop-tarding? Did you know it was less fun? How do you know it would become less fun if jump jets were changed to work the way they're supposed to work, and their effects on the 'Mech, and not like those in MechWarrior II or IV, which were farcical, at best.

I actually didn't buy a mech with JJs before the Highlander but I know that without the ability to shoot while jumping I'd ignore them in my loadout (okay, maybe one would be okay). Shooting while jump jetting, whether you're poptarting or shooting an atlas in the face while jumping over it, are both fun things. Taking away a fun thing from something makes that thing less fun by whatever degree of funness the thing had.

Mechwarrior II jump jets would be a stretch. Couldn't you aim those down and go much faster along the ground?

Kay Wolf, on 28 April 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

How, precisely, do you believe changing them to work correctly, the way things have been discussed in this thread already, would hurt brawlers and other viable builds at the same time it stops or suffers jump-snipers?

Not being able to shoot while jumping close range would be a major hit to someone's play style who makes use of it. Honestly, I'm not sure how jump jets are supposed to work according to battletech rules and such but if it's anything like the anti-jump jet suggestions it would be difficult to even figure out what direction you're going and where you'd end up at the end of the jump. There'd be a lot of Spiders going out of bounds which would be amusing but hardly worth the nerf.

[Hex Pallett]

Uspez, on 28 April 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Shooting while jump jetting, whether you're poptarting or shooting an atlas in the face while jumping over it, are both fun things.

So this is "fun", especially in the case of poptart, is basically because no one else could get a clear long-range shot from cover so cleanly. Hexa-PPC Stalkers are slow, dual-Gauss Jagers/quad-PPC Cats are crisp, and AWS-9M has PPCs mounted at waist-level and counter-sniping pose serious risks. It's because other range-pinpoint damage 'Mechs are essentially limp comparing to poptarts.

Also, just for the record, the JJ nerf should be limited only to Highlander/Phract 3D, not the Lights. In fact I think Lights need a JJ buff. Jenners are so easy to kill I almost feel bad for them.

Edited by Helmstif, 28 April 2013 - 10:37 PM.