63 replies to this topic

[Flux Reversal]

This is supposed to be a comp where an individuals skill is put to the test. Notice I say "individual". Here is the formula for the scoring:

Kills × 20 + Kill Assist × 10 + (Damage Done – Team Damage) ÷ 15 + Wins × 20 + Loss × 10 + Survive × 20 + Dead × 10

Why are wins and losses calculated into the score (which is determined by a teams success and not an individuals)? The rest of the items makes sense because they are true reflections of a pilots actions in game where as a win or loss is determined by the team.

I hereby decree this competition null and void in face of this fact. Its says based upon "solo only" actions yet it calculates factors that are based upon team performance not a solo individual.

[nubcake]

Firstly, the overall value of victory/loss is not that high.
And secondly, If the person is good enough, he should be able to carry his team to victory and get 20 points.
All is fair IMHO.

[Hauser]

The competition is a test for rating systems.

[and zero]

nubcake, on 26 April 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Firstly, the overall value of victory/loss is not that high.
And secondly, If the person is good enough, he should be able to carry his team to victory and get 20 points.
All is fair IMHO.

This is absolutely false. Especially so since elo was implemented (poorly) and many of us now frequently get screwed with utterly incompetent teammates way below our skill level for some ungodly reason. If this was call of duty, your damn right I could and would carry my team. But this is not. If I do 900 damage with 5 kills, one other person does 500 damage, and everyone else does less than 100 before committing suicide with no other kills. We lose. And there is not anything I couldve done about it. Since elo, this happens to me a majority of games. I am not sure why, but it is ****.

Further, regardless of this specific factor, the tournament is still not really a measure of individual skill. It's more like 30% skill and 70% luck. Just like all the past ones. Because this game is so heavily team based and the matchmaking is still such crap (both elo/player skill levels and tonnage balance still being largely MIA). Even if they took out the win loss factor, it is hard to get more than one or two kills/assists when 5 people on your team do less than 60 damage before committing suicide one by one.

[Flux Reversal]

They also need to factor in a way to not count a map if an individual gets disconnected we have no control over NOT being kicked from the game. So one more factor that makes these competitions a joke.

[Hauser]

OZYM4NDI4S, on 26 April 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

They also need to factor in a way to not count a map if an individual gets disconnected we have no control over NOT being kicked from the game. So one more factor that makes these competitions a joke.

Erh. That's why they're using the 5 best. Not your first 5.

[Flux Reversal]

But they use number of games to break ties so yeah top 5 is pointless if wins/loss are still part of the process.

[Tragos]

Yeah...because a tie is really likely to happen...

[Flux Reversal]

....also pointless if disconnects are also counted as a game played

[Kiiyor]

I think it's designed with the concept of team play involved, even though it's a solo competition. You will still be dropping as a team, even if that term has only the loosest application in a PUG.

Perhaps the devs wanted to steer competitors away from the "AAAAGH EVERYONE GET OUT OF MY WAY I NEED SOME DAMAGE AND I'M THE STAR HERE" mindset that was prevalent in the last tourney. This way competitors are at least somewhat invested in how well the rest of their team does. The -team damage component is a great idea.

TLDR? This is first and foremost a team game. Even in an individually measured competition, your contribution to the rest of your team should be a factor. It's part of the core of the game.

[Teralitha]

Im just waiting for the CW leaderboards. These are more like player events than actual tournaments.

The only issue I have with this one, is that they need to announce them sooner.

[Corvus Antaka]

How is it possible that on day 1 of the tournament, your rank for overall ranking is different from your day 1 ranking?

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 26 April 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Yokaiko]

My issues is time, that is 1pm to 1am my local time.....I work 3rd shift, so I bascially get an hour or two a day.

[hammerreborn]

Yokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

My issues is time, that is 1pm to 1am my local time.....I work 3rd shift, so I bascially get an hour or two a day.

??

Each day lasts an entire day. So 1 pm to 1 pm.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 April 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

How is it possible that on day 1 of the tournament, your rank for overall ranking is different from your day 1 ranking?

Because Day 1 = top 5 matches and overall is top 20

Kiiyor, on 26 April 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I think it's designed with the concept of team play involved, even though it's a solo competition. You will still be dropping as a team, even if that term has only the loosest application in a PUG.

Perhaps the devs wanted to steer competitors away from the "AAAAGH EVERYONE GET OUT OF MY WAY I NEED SOME DAMAGE AND I'M THE STAR HERE" mindset that was prevalent in the last tourney. This way competitors are at least somewhat invested in how well the rest of their team does. The -team damage component is a great idea.

TLDR? This is first and foremost a team game. Even in an individually measured competition, your contribution to the rest of your team should be a factor. It's part of the core of the game.

Kill stealing is infinitely more productive than damage. Each kill is 300 damage worth of points.

[Deathlike]

The damage to kill ratio should be more like 150 to 200 per kill instead of 300/kill...

The unfortunately exploitability of the current system is DC/AFK/CTD Warrior... that's needs to be fixed.

[SirSlaughter]

MWO is a game where playing as a team is very important and funny, but this kind of tournament forces people to launch solo.

Also exploits are behind the corner.

[TOGSolid]

Kiiyor, on 26 April 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I think it's designed with the concept of team play involved, even though it's a solo competition. You will still be dropping as a team, even if that term has only the loosest application in a PUG.

Perhaps the devs wanted to steer competitors away from the "AAAAGH EVERYONE GET OUT OF MY WAY I NEED SOME DAMAGE AND I'M THE STAR HERE" mindset that was prevalent in the last tourney. This way competitors are at least somewhat invested in how well the rest of their team does. The -team damage component is a great idea.

TLDR? This is first and foremost a team game. Even in an individually measured competition, your contribution to the rest of your team should be a factor. It's part of the core of the game.

Instead it's AHHH GET OUT OF MY WAY I NEED THAT KILL SHOT. So instead of intentionally not killing people just to max damage you instead have guys with high alpha builds that are holding fire just to last hit the enemy mech. The pendulum has swung too far back the other way again.

That said, these tourneys are improving with each go around. I think the theory behind their current formula is a good one, it just needs a little fine tuning now. It takes 186 damage to cleanly centerpunch an Atlas. Make that equal to one kill and I think we might end up in a good spot for score balance.

Edited by TOGSolid, 27 April 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Farpenoodle]

Yeah. This is a way better format than the last one. I can't believe people are complaining about it.

I mean it's not perfect but it's just waaaaay better than what they've done before. I'm surprised myself.

Edited by Farpenoodle, 27 April 2013 - 12:45 AM.

[Kiiyor]

TOGSolid, on 27 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Instead it's AHHH GET OUT OF MY WAY I NEED THAT KILL SHOT. So instead of intentionally not killing people just to max damage you instead have guys with high alpha builds that are holding fire just to last hit the enemy mech. The pendulum has swung too far back the other way again.

That said, these tourneys are improving with each go around. I think the theory behind their current formula is a good one, it just needs a little fine tuning now. It takes 186 damage to cleanly centerpunch an Atlas. Make that equal to one kill and I think we might end up in a good spot for score balance.

After playing, I've noticed a lot of KS. The YLW with it's ac20 seems built for it. Cicadas with a crapload of lasers seem to be able to rack up some kills also.

I'm not sure the KS is a huge problem though. Someone posted that you need to do roughly 300 damage to equal the points garnered for a kill, and I'm too lazy to check the math so i'm going to accept that as gospel.

Doing a bit of KS might get your scores up, but the top performers will be the ones that have both damage and kills. Maybe.

[Yokaiko]

hammerreborn, on 26 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

??

Each day lasts an entire day. So 1 pm to 1 pm.

Oddly I have only scores for games this afternoon.

That is actually a good thing, holy crap tonight has been *****.