53 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Current poll results show that "Assaults" are overplayed. Considering that LAST WEEKEND was the Assault vs World Tourney AND that the Highlanders were released... you're getting the "duh" effect. Those who got their Highlanders are probably still grinding them further, thus skewing the results.

[Roadbeer]

Given that 3 people voted for medium as over played, I'm surprised they're not chiming in.

Unless it's because it's a check-box poll and it's getting trolled.

[Tennex]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Current poll results show that "Assaults" are overplayed. Considering that LAST WEEKEND was the Assault vs World Tourney AND that the Highlanders were released... you're getting the "duh" effect. Those who got their Highlanders are probably still grinding them further, thus skewing the results.

results will always be skewed depending on when the poll is taken and how long its been ongoing. for example if this poll was taken around jagermech release it would be skewed towards heavy mechs, etc.

though what we can do is account for the recent events when explaining the data

but i'd agree. normally assault wouldn't be overplayed. at least from my experiences the heavy is seen more.

Edited by Tennex, 27 April 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[Sam Slade]

Tonnage balance in matchmaker is our friend!

[Maxx Blue]

I don't think the entire weight classes are over or under powered, but certain mechs in each class are. However, assaults and some heavies do seem overplayed. I think that is because they do the best job of grinding xp and cbills.

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 27 April 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Given that 3 people voted for medium as over played, I'm surprised they're not chiming in.

Unless it's because it's a check-box poll and it's getting trolled.

Maybe those 3 people who voted that mediums are OP should also check in.

They must have built the ultimate medium frankenmech...

WHEN ALL YOUR MEDIUM MECHS ARE COMBINED, I SUMMON CAPTAIN URBIE!

[blinkin]

Deathlike, on 27 April 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Maybe those 3 people who voted that mediums are OP should also check in.

They must have built the ultimate medium frankenmech...

WHEN ALL YOUR MEDIUM MECHS ARE COMBINED, I SUMMON CAPTAIN URBIE!

no the ultimate frankenmech is crippletron!

[Fate 6]

Roadbeer, on 27 April 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I think there is a misconception of underpowered vs underplayed in this poll.

I don't often see mediums on the field, but when I do, they are being played well, by people who know how to play them, and doing more than their share of contribution.

I play almost only mediums, so there's a weird balance between underplayed and underpowered here. They are certainly underplayed. Of the few medium pilots, the good ones look like beasts because you notice when a medium mech tops the board (I pretty much always do in my CN9-A). That said, there are very few chassis where this is possible in. So I would say some mediums are balanced (or extremely strong in the right hands), but as a whole they are underpowered. The Hunch as a whole is, the other 3 Cents, and basically all the Trebuchets and Cicadas (except maybe the X5).

I am bad at most of the Heavy chassis for some reason, but I've always felt that a pilot of equal skill in a heavy would be worth more than a medium in the current game. It get's a little weird for Assaults because there is a big enough speed gap where a medium can maneuver around them.

[Abrahms]

Lights are not supposed to solo assaults like some want. Sorry, it doesnt fit in with lore.

An Atlas is 100 tons, a commando is 25, get over it.

A commando is a scout mech, harass, base capper, etc. You bring heavies and assaults to be the big guns. Mediums though used to have more of a role but right now theyre just mini guns. The hunchback is really the only worthwhile medium due to having good brawler loadouts on a fast and small-profiled mech.

Really, its a staple of mechwarrior to have moer tons = more dmg. Once they actually refine game-modes, drop weights, etc, we should see mech weight play out a lot better.

But no, sorry, I shouldnt be able to get 4+ kills and towards top damage in a jenner. Broken lag-shield gave a lot of ppl a misunderstanding.

[Coralld]

Tennex, on 27 April 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

i don't remember them ever being popular when R&R was in game. They were popular before engine restrictions were put in. but that was before R&R. used to see all these 9 small laser hunchies running around

Perhaps popular is an incorrect word, how about, more common... There was less Assaults and Heavies running around that's for sure.
And yes, I remember the Swayback blitz's that happened before the engine nurf, but after that, Mediums were still common because repairing Heavies and Assaults were super expensive to the point you could actually spend more money on repair and rearm then you actually made. Hens the reason why Mediums were more common because they were cost effective.
After the removal of the R&R a lot of people went to Heavies and Assaults.

[sC4r]

medium underpowered... for most part because they are too big for the tonnage
other are fine i would say

[Taemien]

SovietPanda, on 27 April 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

The problem is medium mechs don't have a well defined roll in mechwarrior online, I think. People have a hard time going in a hunchback when they can go in a heavy mech with more armor and more weapons, and the speed difference doesn't bother them (and really isn't notable).
I think a lot of good people make use of medium mechs by exploiting positioning to the best of their ability, but I think it's a direct downgrade for someone of average skill and rather difficult to work with for someone new.
I think it's also a better mech class for 8 mans then pugging.

The problem isn't that the mediums don't have a defined role in MWO. Its that they don't have a role in the MWO Community. There's simply no way for the Devs to fix that fact unless they make them OP in some way, or percieved OP is the correct term.

This community can only see two things:

Fast Striking Mechs
Slow Heavy Hitting Mechs

They cannot comprehend anything else. Some of the more experienced players can and do very well in their rides. They are just as competitive as they are in other mechs. For example in my group, one of the guys uses a Centurion. He's better in that thing than any other mech he has whether it be a Jenner, Atlas, Cataphract, ect. He's capable of keeping up in damage with me, scoring 500-900 per fight with 2-3 or more kills.

I'll show evidence of this community's short sightedness with this quote, from this thread:

Abrahms, on 28 April 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Lights are not supposed to solo assaults like some want. Sorry, it doesnt fit in with lore.

An Atlas is 100 tons, a commando is 25, get over it.

A commando is a scout mech, harass, base capper, etc. You bring heavies and assaults to be the big guns. Mediums though used to have more of a role but right now theyre just mini guns. The hunchback is really the only worthwhile medium due to having good brawler loadouts on a fast and small-profiled mech.

Really, its a staple of mechwarrior to have moer tons = more dmg. Once they actually refine game-modes, drop weights, etc, we should see mech weight play out a lot better.

But no, sorry, I shouldnt be able to get 4+ kills and towards top damage in a jenner. Broken lag-shield gave a lot of ppl a misunderstanding.

This guy actually thinks a 25 ton mech in Lore cannot take on an Atlas. Despite it happening in the books and TT game. You have an entire regiment in House Davion called the Davion Light Guards which make use of lights almost exclusively.

He's obviously never played TT either. Just a few weeks ago I saw a Commando solo an Atlas. Atlas had a better pilot too (1/3 vs 3/4) But because of the maneuverability of the commando, the Atlas couldn't do anything, the commando would move out of its nastier firing arcs and would be moving the full 9 movement to up its chances of being missed. Enough SRMs to the same side torso will ruin the day of even a 19ton armor atlas.

But like most of the community he's too blind, ignorant, and stubborn and will continue to use assaults and call for light/medium nerfs in the future.

[Davers]

I still remember when my 30 ton Valkyrie solo'd an Enforcer (50 ton) and a Victor (80 ton) using it's maneuverability.

The problem with medium mechs as I see it:

Bad hardpoints compared to heavy mechs.

No objectives other than Cap or Kill. Other weight classes do them better.

Going slow isn't an option. Going fast forces a trade between firepower/speed/survivability.

Entire economy is based on damage. Only way to get high damage is by engaging and surviving combat with multiple opponents. This means being able to kill an opponent quickly to avoid damage, or be strong enough that you are still viable after facing multiple hits.

Medium mechs rely on medium lasers and missiles to do damage. The current heat system punishes mechs that have to fire multiple times compared to 2 alpha strikes.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tennex]

these votes seem to match up with the tornament results so far.

http://mwomercs.com/tournaments

Medium mechs place consistently low. placing last in 2 of the 3 days
heavies are doing the best overall

thogh its only been 3 days. i suspect we will see this trend continue though

Edited by Tennex, 28 April 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[Tennex]

Davers, on 28 April 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

I still remember when my 30 ton Valkyrie solo'd an Enforcer (50 ton) and a Victor (80 ton) using it's maneuverability.

The problem with medium mechs as I see it:

Bad hardpoints compared to heavy mechs.

No objectives other than Cap or Kill. Other weight classes do them better.

Going slow isn't an option. Going fast forces a trade between firepower/speed/survivability.

Entire economy is based on damage. Only way to get high damage is by engaging and surviving combat with multiple opponents. This means being able to kill an opponent quickly to avoid damage, or be strong enough that you are still viable after facing multiple hits.

Medium mechs rely on medium lasers and missiles to do damage. The current heat system punishes mechs that have to fire multiple times compared to 2 alpha strikes.

Just my 2 cents.

there seems to be a threshold of speed and smallness. where, after exceeding those values. a mech becomes significantly harder to hit. (it seems to be around >100kph for light mechs)

light mechs fall well on that curve. but mediums seem to be in a awkward spot where they don't meet the small threshold for evasion. and they only barely meet the speed threshold.

in which case you have awkward fast trebbies running around fast. but getting torn up way faster than they should be

Edited by Tennex, 28 April 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

weight classes are not balanced and should not be balanced anyway.

Weight matters. What is not balanced is weight matching, and lack of incentives to run smaller mechs.

[Teralitha]

Weight class difference isnt the problem.


Heat balance is the problem.


Remove double heat sinks.... problem solved.

[Davers]

Teralitha, on 28 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Weight class difference isnt the problem.


Heat balance is the problem.


Remove double heat sinks.... problem solved.

But if lights and mediums benefited the most from DHS, won't that mean they will suffer the most from their removal? How is this 'problem solved'?

[Stargoat]

Davers, on 28 April 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

But if lights and mediums benefited the most from DHS, won't that mean they will suffer the most from their removal? How is this 'problem solved'?

Don't engage this guy, he's a troll repeating the same stupid sentiment in as many threads as he can.

[Davers]

Stargoat, on 28 April 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Don't engage this guy, he's a troll repeating the same stupid sentiment in as many threads as he can.

I know. I keep following him from thread to thread trying to get him to explain himself.