232 replies to this topic

[ZonbiBadger]

Faster mechs, especially lights tend to do the "circle of death" on you still. Instead of trying to follow their circle turn the opposite direction.

stevemac, on 29 April 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

so your saying you stand there and snipe ( zoomed in I assume ) and wonder why you get killed by a light running up behind you .......just asking

You are just a troll.

[Cato Phoenix]

If assaults/heavies always, 100% beat lights in game, then no one would take lights and you would have atlas warrior online.

[151st Light Horse Regiment]

Take this for example...

I listened to guys in this topic and tried to fight against lights.

I got bounced by two of them. I managed to kill one (using scrubby AC40's) but by then i was critical and the second one finished me off.

Aiming an AC20 at point blank, and actually hitting, is too hard. It didnt help that the lights were lagging all over the place, and tbh im pretty convinced that even my 'hits' werent actually registering.

As long as a light gets close and runs fast, you stand little chance.

[Cato Phoenix]

I will literally team up with you and fight lights with you. It's not that crazy.

No guts no galaxy teamspeak find me on CJF channel.

[mekabuser]

all i can do is lol at op .. sry.. perhaps the 360 target retention would help. Or better situational awareness. Or something.
Complaining about lights present day carries zero weight.

[SgtMagor]

lights are still causing lag when they run across the front of your mech. so, I don't think this problem has been fixed yet! 1 light mech lagging and warping can destroy an assault in seconds...

[ArmageddonKnight]

The issue with all this is just down to the Double Armor PGI put in.

it should not have been a universal double armor for all.

TT values made lights go pop if hit which big guns, as it should be. But getitng that hit is hard, becouse lights are fast and manuverable ..as it should be.
The double armor made it so now that single shot or 2 shots that would normal kill said light, is now 3,4 or 5 shots, u now need to get lucky or 'skillfully aim' twice as many shots of those big weapons.

The armor increase from TT should have been (roughly) +50% for lights/fast mechs (0-40 tonns), +120% for medium(41 - 59 tonns), +130 for heavies (60 - 74 tonns), and +180% for assualts(75+ tonns). To keep things balanced.

Currently Assaults dont have enough armor, and lights have to much.

You can still deal with lights atm no doubt ..but they r tougher than they should be.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 30 April 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Ser Barristan]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 30 April 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

Take this for example...

I listened to guys in this topic and tried to fight against lights.

I got bounced by two of them. I managed to kill one (using scrubby AC40's) but by then i was critical and the second one finished me off.

Aiming an AC20 at point blank, and actually hitting, is too hard. It didnt help that the lights were lagging all over the place, and tbh im pretty convinced that even my 'hits' werent actually registering.

As long as a light gets close and runs fast, you stand little chance.

To be honest your build isn't particularly optimized for fighting anything with speed up close and personal. A well piloted 50 tonner with a tweaked 250 has a pretty good chance of winning a CQB fight with an AC40 JM6 and if you claimed mediums where OP you'd get laughed out of town. AC20s are high caliber slow ballistics. Additionally on the JM6 they are mounted wide apart, you're likely inside the convergence distance when fighting lights and only going to be with connecting with one. Essentially you're trying to hit a sparrow with a Barrett while its flying round your head. With that build you're either going to need to be lucky or have a teammate help scrape them off.

[Villz]

honestly the most stupid thread iv seen in a while and thats saying something.

[Kyone Akashi]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Currently Assaults dont have enough armor, and lights have to much. You can still deal with lights atm no doubt ..but they r tougher than they should be.

You don't seem to realize that the x2 Armor actually benefits the heavier 'Mechs more?

Ask yourself what makes more of a difference:
a Jenner's Torso armor being increased from 22 to 44 (+22 Armor)
or
an Atlas' Torso armor being increased from 62 to 124 (+62 Armor)

It takes the Atlas about 5 seconds longer to shred that Jenner, given its impressive weapons array.
Now take a wild guess how long that Jenner's 4 Medium Lasers take to burn through the additional 62 points.

Assault pilots should be lucky that all 'Mechs get double armor. Lights would truly ruin their day if it were otherwise. I'm all for giving it a try for, say, a week, though! Let's do this!

[Zerberus]

I agree. IIRC we already tried standard armor vales in closed beta and more or less unanimously agreed that it sucked....

But then again, we were actively testing, not expecting a finished and polished product and just wanting it to be easier....

Then again, the community as a whole seems to have forgotten that we all started up on this trip just over a year ago, and that we`ve been in Open Beta for just about 6 months. I personally can`t understand why people seem to thint that closed beta was the end of Beta and marked "release", but then again I do fully understand that 50% of humans, here and elsewhere, are below average intelligence.

PS: If anyone wants to flame me for that, be my guest. But I suggest you look up the definition of "average" first

Edited by Zerberus, 30 April 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[DerSpecht]

How to break the circle -> *** to the wall -> aim properly..

I can easily engage 2 lights with my hunch. Leg em with SRM and finish off with laz0rs. With my Atlas its 1 Alpha... so whats wrong with OP?

[ArmageddonKnight]

Oh i know how the %'s work, what im saying is. universal Double Armor neglects to deal with the fact that even though weapons fire faster, their alpha isnt higher, so that 1 hard to place shot on a light that would normaly kill it .now doesnt. .and said light can run circles around a atlass and take its time getitng throug the additional armor.

yes we aim better and that was one of the reasons for double armor (increased weapon rof and pinpoint aiming) BUT hiting a fast moving small light mech is still alot harder than hitting another heavy/assualt mech. That wasnt taken into consideration.

EDIT: im ignoring the fact we can boat insane alpha builds. .that another broken mechanic that im not getitng into. im asuming a 'normal' banced loadout, wich hopefully we will all be using once PGI fixes hotboating.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 30 April 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Villz]

the only ppl who think lights have to much armour atm are people who dont know how to use a mouse. And this is coming from a 90% assult pilot......

Try this in your user.cfg file ok....
---------------------------------------------
cl_sensitivity=0.4
i_mouse_accel=0
i_mouse_accel_max=0
i_mouse_smooth=0
---------------------------------------------

this will turn mouse acceleration and smoothing off making your mouse inputs more linear (which is important in training muscle memory) and the cl sensitivity command is your actual mouse sensitivity. 0.4 being 40% 1.0 being 100% etc. the most common thing iv found is this game has huge mouse sensitivity by default. And its veryyyy difficult for people to be accurate with. In a game where your crosshair movement speed is limited by the torso turn rate of a mech the benefits of having high sense are negligable. Just try it out for a couple of days I BET you will notice huge improvements.

[Zerberus]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

yes we aim better and that was one of the reasons for double armor (increased weapon rof and pinpoint aiming) BUT hiting a fast moving small light mech is still alot harder than hitting another heavy/assualt mech. That wasnt taken into consideration.

TBH I don`t feel that it would have been a good idea to do so. Lights were getting splattered all over the solar system by weapons that other classes considered "a joke" in many cases. if it indeed benefitted them more (which I don`t believe to be the case), it was not a bad thing.

Remember, lights still have their speed "castrated" by netcode. When they can finally run as fast as they`re supposed to be able to, so that good pilots can compensate for being a nerf-gun made of glass, THEN we can look at tweaking armor values. IMO.

[Kyone Akashi]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Oh i know how the %'s work, what im saying is. universal Double Armor neglects to deal with the fact that even though weapons fire faster, their alpha isnt higher, so that 1 hard to place shot on a light that would normaly kill it .now doesnt. .and said light can run circles around a atlass and take its time getitng throug the additional armor.

yes we aim better and that was one of the reasons for double armor (increased weapon rof and pinpoint aiming) BUT hiting a fast moving small light mech is still alot harder than hitting another heavy/assualt mech. That wasnt taken into consideration.

How was it "not taken into consideration"?

Are you seriously telling me that you are convinced that it would be more fun for everyone if a non-respawning player could be one-shotted? Are you not taking into consideration that a Light having to deal with double armor on every location of his opponent (torso twist, people!) has to spend a whole lot more time killing its target? Time that said target will likely invest into landing that second hit - and time which its teammates will have to help fending off said Light?

I'm sorry, I can't follow your logic. To me, the drastic increase in time it takes for an Assault to be destroyed surely favors the Assault more than "now I have to hit that Light twice instead of just once!".

[ArmageddonKnight]

Indeed iagree about the mouse sensativity, iv turned mine down but i myself can only go down so far as my mouse mat is tiny ..ofc i will eventualy get aroudn this issue but anyway.

im not saying lights are to tough beocuse i cant deal with them, iv said that u can deal with them ..it aint exactly hard .atleats not from my opinion. BUT, if u take a step back from ur own experiances, Lights ARE tougher than they should be.

Its hard to force urself into a unbiased perspective, few can do it ..but if u can u can see alot more. Unfortunatly it also usualy means ur a minority >.<

EDIT: i think u are still thinking as light mechs as brawlers ..they are scouts, and support mechs. your not meant to be killing mechs one on one that are bigger than u ..ur not meant to be doing insane damage. Lights currently can equip weapons that they shouldnt ..thats anotheri ssue with them. So dont go bringing in the argument of how long it take them to kill somthing ..it should take a longass time ..and tbh ..it honestly doesnt take that long ..rear armro is usualy minimal.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 30 April 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

BUT, if u take a step back from ur own experiances, Lights ARE tougher than they should be.

So are Assaults. And Heavies. And Mediums.
With the small detail that the difference in toughness is more obvious the heavier the chassis.

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Its hard to force urself into a unbiased perspective, few can do it ..but if u can u can see alot more. Unfortunatly it also usualy means ur a minority >.<

I generally agree with this assessment - I tend to describe it as "tunnel vision". And I tend to recommend that others should simply try playing what they criticise, just so that they can see for themselves.

For the record, I am not playing a Light at the moment... Are you?

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

EDIT: i think u are still thinking as light mechs as brawlers ..they are scouts, and support mechs. your not meant to be killing mechs one on one that are bigger than u ..ur not meant to be doing insane damage. Lights currently can equip weapons that they shouldnt ..thats anotheri ssue with them. So dont go bringing in the argument of how hard it is for them to kil lsomthing ..it should be hard -.-

This is blatantly false. The Jenner, for example, was always meant to be a Striker/Skirmisher, and its first prototype even featured a large laser.

"A favorite tactic was for a lance of Jenners (including one or two equipped with Inferno SRMs) to gang up and alpha strike a much heavier BattleMech at the same time. If the target survived the initial salvo, it was typically badly damaged and running hot due to the Infernos, allowing the Jenners to leap away in different directions to cool down. The Jenners would regroup seconds later to repeat the tactic."

"Many observers joked that the original weapons loadout was an experiment to install a turret from scrapped Union DropShips onto a BattleMech. However, the turret-mounted lasers proved to be too fragile for production and were stripped out, replaced with extra armor, and new medium lasers were installed in the arms. [...] The Thunderstroke SRM 4 pack, which replaced the original large laser, works just as well against BattleMechs and vehicles, especially when the single ammo bin is equipped with Inferno rounds. Combined, these weapons give the Jenner more firepower than most other light BattleMechs in existence and a number of medium BattleMechs as well. [...] None of the original prototypes with the large laser are still functional, though a few pilots have attempted, unsuccessfully, to modify their machines to carry a large laser without the turret."

- source: TRO3039

If you believe that Light BattleMechs are meant only for scouting and support, you are in error. There are some specific chassis that are geared more towards that role than another (and perform better in it), but this goes for just about any 'Mech. What you've expressed is akin to saying that all Heavies are only meant to be fire support because Catapult.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 30 April 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[DerSpecht]

ArmageddonKnight, on 30 April 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

EDIT: i think u are still thinking as light mechs as brawlers ..they are scouts, and support mechs. your not meant to be killing mechs one on one that are bigger than u ..ur not meant to be doing insane damage. Lights currently can equip weapons that they shouldnt ..thats anotheri ssue with them. So dont go bringing in the argument of how long it take them to kill somthing ..it should take a longass time ..and tbh ..it honestly doesnt take that long ..rear armro is usualy minimal.

Thats ur personal definition of lights. Not the official one.

[ArmageddonKnight]

'Some' specific varients .. 1 Large laser.

have u seen some of the insane builds around. Double er LL. AC10's ... 5 medium lasers.

The small weapons are there for a reason ..but they aint used becouse the current hardpoint system allows for these rediculus builds.

Anyway ..getting of topic. Im also gunna stop here. convo is going no where.