25 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

Rules:
No boating (5+ of same weapon or similar builds)
No ERPPC
No dual Gauss/AC20

What are some good Cat builds that aren't going to be crippled if PGI ever gets their act together and balances the game?

I use the K2 variant exclusively at the moment, so I'll share a few good builds with it.
DAC/10 Good brawler before HSR; now that everything hits your huge CT, brawling in a Cat doesn't work out as well as it used to.
DAC/5-LL Medium-long range build, with decent brawling capabilities if the enemy gets close; very heat efficient.
Ultrapult 5 As above, but with UAC/5s instead of AC5s
DAC/2-MPL Hot build; often will be firing only MPLs (short range) or only AC2s (long range).
4LL Decent all-around build, but some would argue that 4LL is boating; Can use LPLs instead and work about as well, though I'd stick with LLs.

Note: most of these builds I expect to be nerfed by bug fixes, because according the the known issues thread, ballistic weapons (at least torso-mounted) are not supposed to converge.

This means that the Dual AC20/Gauss builds will eventually be nerfed. Not sure if this will affect (ER)PPCs too, which would end up being a significant nerf to the K2's diversity, at least, as it would pretty much limit it to laser boats or single-ballistic builds (though dual LBX-10s would be no less effective, I think).

With this in mind, I've been testing a few single-ballistic builds.
GauML4 Gauss is always a good choice, due to the Cat's smaller side torsos, and with only one, you have the entire opposite side to absorb damage. (may try with CASE for greater survivability)
UltraLL3 A bit low on the ammo, and a bit hot, but an effective long-range build.
AC/5LL3 Same as the Ultra variant, but with an AC5, and more emphasis on using the Lasers.

Unfortunately, with HSR and overpowered Alphas, Cats are now exceptionally flimsy. Your huge head and CT means that enemies can core you by looking at you hard enough. The Cat is still probably the most versatile Heavy chassis, but it's been more or less indirectly nerfed into the ground - the direct-fire-only K2 more than the missile boats. It's much harder to have fun with it now that every other mech can 1-shot you from 800m.

Afterthought builds:
AC/20ML4 Single-Gauss build above with AC/20 instead.
AC/20-LL/ML Loses some damage potential in return for greater mobility and range.

Other users' content:

CPLT-K2
Koniving:
2xAC/2 + 4xML

Chaosdrive:
AC/20-2LL
AC/20-2PPC
(Left out the two untested builds for now; may test them myself later)

l3elthaz0r:
AC/20-2LL-2ML

Jay Z:
2LL-2PPC


CPLT-C1
Chaosdrive:
2LRM10-2PPC

John McFianna
2LRM10-2LPL-2MPL

Edited by Sable Dove, 03 May 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Sio]

All your builds are ballistic based (except the 4xll one) which means you have to show the torso of your mech to your opponent.
Thats the reason you easily get destroyed by the alphas. If you would go energy based you can use terrain to protect your torso and still dish out damage. That would be the eppc/ppc route.
Your suggested builds make more sense on a jagermech.

[Koniving]

This is a mock-up (not exact but similar) build to my current K2.

It works quite well even now. It is similar to this hotter-running build from December.

Vid's name comes from what is typed into the chat box by me just seconds before I take the final kill.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Sio, on 28 April 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

All your builds are ballistic based (except the 4xll one) which means you have to show the torso of your mech to your opponent.
Thats the reason you easily get destroyed by the alphas. If you would go energy based you can use terrain to protect your torso and still dish out damage. That would be the eppc/ppc route.
Your suggested builds make more sense on a jagermech.

While this is (mostly) true, I did say no cheese. Which means ERPPCs are out. And I just don't have enough experience with PPCs to make a good build with them. You're free to suggest your own builds, so long as they follow the no cheese rules. I've simply had more luck with a ballistics-heavy build.

That, and using heavy ballistics makes the most of your hardpoints; 4 heavy energy weapons makes you hot, and gives you a limited selection, I feel. I can take a heavy ballistic or two, as well as a couple heavy energy weapons, and I don't run nearly as hot; which would be more important if high heat were penalized in this game as it should be.

I did also include three single-ballistic builds, which rely more heavily on large energy weapons. I'd love to have some energy builds using MG backups, but MGs hurt the user more than the target right now, so I can't justify it.

[Chaosdrive]

First of all I'm just going to say I put all my armour in the front when building in the browser based mechlabs, thereby the armour values for front and back in each torso section are not what I would recommend, they are just like that for quicker building.

Much like the AC/20ML4 build, though I'd build mine like this AC/20-2LL. The weapons are spread out on both the left and right, meaning you aren't totally crippled when that AC/20 gets knocked out.

Here is a build which I wouldn't really call cheese as it still needs good heat management, it's basically my work around for not using the typical dual AC/20's for the same level of alpha. AC/20 - 2PPC. On the brightside it does offer a little more range, at the expense of halving damage under 90m. You could also build it with gauss though then I think I'd be really pushing it for no cheese builds, that one could be considered close.

Last one really, this one for me is completely theoretical, based on the recycle times of the PPC and AC weapons (3 for PPC, 2.5 for AC/10) which is meant to reduce the time the CT is exposed. XL version (Faster, cooler): AC/10-2PPC-XL. Standard version (Slower, hotter, survives much better: AC/10-2PPC-SD

In all honesty, my K2 has been sat doing very little for awhile now, it feels that most the builds I spin out work on a Jagermech better, which is a shame really, I use to love my catapult and fighting against the cheese builds at the time wasn't that bad either, there was always the head to aim for and, somewhat reliably, hit.

As for the other Catapult variants, well, most if not all of the builds are fairly obvious, there's only so much one can do with that many missile hard points. Though I took a quick look at the C1 and came up with this 2LRM10-2PPC as a medium to medium-long range mech, though I've never been the biggest fan of LRM's.

Edited by Chaosdrive, 29 April 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Dauphni]

I've been running this baby occasionally for a good while now: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...da653102abb6e0a

It's really good at what it's supposed to do, which is extreme range suppression. Unfortunately it's not that effective in the current sniper-heavy meta, but it still performs reasonably well on the two extra large maps we have and it'll be better again when the meta inevitably shifts again. Unlike dedicated snipers, it's not designed to take high-alpha potshots over ridges, but to provide a stable platform to control and support the primary engagement from the safety of your back line. As such it does require good teamwork, you'll be having a very hard time running it solo.

I don't think ERPPCs automatically make for cheesy builds. It's all in the way you utilise them, and this particular build is a good example of that.

[l3elthaz0r]

My current build, the Catapult BSU aka Blow Stuff Up

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0489969044a128

Runs a lil hot, and sacrifices a bit of armour on the legs + no AMS, but I'm liking this build. Not very speedy but a good workhorse 1st - 2nd line attacker.

[Jay Z]

I am running this at the moment CPLT-K2

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Im running with my Vulture-Rebuild.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5872ea97212b0a2

Use LRMs to soften up the Target... then close in and use the lasers accuracy. Heat efficuiency is actually better, as you dont use the LRMs together with the lasers.

[REDERK23]

Trying to learn (what does "cheese" mean exactely btw ) and this is the result. Please comment..!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...785bff058ea75c4

2 LL , 2 AC5, 2 Flamers, AMS. Very unsure about choosing armor type, engine type/model, and how structure affects build.

[Sable Dove]

REDERK23, on 04 May 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Trying to learn (what does "cheese" mean exactely btw ) and this is the result. Please comment..!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...785bff058ea75c4

2 LL , 2 AC5, 2 Flamers, AMS. Very unsure about choosing armor type, engine type/model, and how structure affects build.

To me, at least, 'cheese' refers to taking advantage of very overpowered weapons or builds as much as possible. At the moment, that means ERPPCs or SSRMs, or using as many of the same heavy weapons as possible 4/5-PPC Stalkers, the dual AC/20 or Gauss builds, etc.

As to your build there, This is what I'd suggest: CPLT-K2

If you can't afford the XL engine, CPLT-K2 could work.

Definitely get Endo-Steel structure.

When choosing XL engines, it's often best to pick ratings that are multiples of 25 (250, 275, 300, etc.) and then go to the next highest rating with the same weight (XL255 weighs the same as the XL250, XL280=XL275, etc.). For the Catapult, I typically use an XL300. It keeps you mobile, and still allows you to mount plenty of weaponry. A few of my builds use the XL315, but this is because I have Endo-Steel, which causes me to run out of slots if I use the XL300, and changing it for one build is a waste of CBills.



I've added a few more mechs to the OP that I tested and found at least sort of effective (the current state of LRMs means that the missile variants have a hard time making useful builds without resorting to cheese.

[Victor Morson]

If you think the Catapult, currently one of the worst 'mechs due to the state of missiles, can even POSSIBLY become cheese, there is no hope for you.

EDIT: The topic should instead read "Help me build a terrible Frankenmech / help me post angry things about good 'mechs later." Because that's how I'm reading it.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 May 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Jay Z]

OK, I've changed my K2 to this CPLT-K2

I was running 5 tons of ammo and 16 DHS but decided to drop the LA heatsink and some leg armour in favour of 2 tons of ammo. However, I had to put them in the arms. So far this is my favourite K2 build and has great DPS as a second line brawler

[Rustiax]

Jay Z, on 05 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

OK, I've changed my K2 to this CPLT-K2

I was running 5 tons of ammo and 16 DHS but decided to drop the LA heatsink and some leg armour in favour of 2 tons of ammo. However, I had to put them in the arms. So far this is my favourite K2 build and has great DPS as a second line brawler

I have a similar build but with 1x ERLL , 3x ML & 2x UAC/5 and a bit less ammo and i'm loving it, favourite build with 2xAC/10 & 4xML

[Red Line Pilot]

I just started Catapults my self and kinda feel the same about the cheesy AC40 and PPC boats.

That AC20 2LL 2ML set up looks nice. I came up with the same thing tried it in a vew games had some good fun with it. It is kinda slow though. But the cat didnt have all the basics yet.

[Ph30nix]

ummm there is nothing wrong with boats, and there really is nothing cheesy.

If you take a catapult(or any mech) out without using it to the best of it abilities thats your problem.

what would you have an A-1 do? be **** poor at every range or good at one range?

Its all about either wanting specilization or being balanced. Being specilized leaves you wide open vs things, being balanced leaves you able to do SOMETHING in any situation but not being great at any of them.

nothing wrong with either playstyle except when people whine about one persons play style being too good against their own but its fine that their playstyle dominates someone elses. Its a team game for a reason.

[BumRuckus]

One of my Favorite C-1 Builds: Combat C1

Alternatively: Alternate Combat C1

Please try and comment!

Edited by BumRuckus, 14 May 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

Whats this about no more ballistic torso convergence??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3654a9a316ef2b2

@bumruckus its easiest to just use the plain link

[BumRuckus]

Nehkrosis, on 14 May 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Whats this about no more ballistic torso convergence??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3654a9a316ef2b2

@bumruckus its easiest to just use the plain link

Thanks figured it out!

[Dauphni]

Here's another nice C1 build. It's pretty much a smaller Rakshasa, and it performs very well as a heavy harasser and flanker. It's not a great powerhouse, but it can just keep on coming and put on the hurt from any range.