41 replies to this topic

[Lord of All]

Unbalances Game.

I see alot Of threads to remove SHS and that is the exact opposite of what is needed. Most of the problems and complaint threads I've seen can all be laid to at the feet of DHS tech.

And please just argue the DHS removal.

Edited by Lord of All, 06 May 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Black Templar]

yes clan tech is superior to IS tech. and it is supposed to be like this. there are also threads that suggest balancing clans by reducing their respective manpower from 8 to 6 and 12 to 8 accordingly. the rest of your post looks like a rant to me. you either need to explain this a litte bit more in detail or go complain somewhere else about it.

please stop the everlasting "DOOM!" threads. they achieve nothing and don't help. at all. ever.

Edited by Black Templar, 30 April 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Ummm ... DHS aren't Clan tech, and they never were. All of the advanced stuff we have now was gleaned from the Helm memory core found in 3028.

[Lord of All]

Black Templar, on 30 April 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

yes clan tech is superior to IS tech. and it is supposed to be like this. there are also threads that suggest balancing clans by reducing their respective manpower from 8 to 6 and 12 to 8 accordingly. the rest of your post looks like a rant to me. you either need to explain this a litte bit more in detail or go complain somewhere else about it.

please stop the everlasting "DOOM!" threads. they achieve nothing and don't help. at all. ever.

What's to explain? DHS is not supposed to be introduced yet and it is. It looks to me like it is at the root of most of the balance issues. And If it is not the root it exasperated the unbalance to an Spectacular level.

Durant Carlyle, on 30 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Ummm ... DHS aren't Clan tech, and they never were. All of the advanced stuff we have now was gleaned from the Helm memory core found in 3028.

Either way it is too early for it to be introduced IMO and is what is causing the imbalance issues.

[Voridan Atreides]

Lord of All, on 30 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Either way it is too early for it to be introduced IMO and is what is causing the imbalance issues.

It says they were introduced in 2567, were lost, but then rediscovered again in the early 3000s. Not sure if you are refering to the timeline or not.

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 30 April 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[Lord of All]

Voridan Atreides, on 30 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

It says they were introduced in 2567, were lost, but then rediscovered again in the early 3000s. Not sure if you are refering to the timeline or not.

They were not in battletech so yes I'm talking about the timeline and game balance. All the arguments that SHS are worthless are of course correct but it is because DHS is introduced to early. You cannot change such a major part of the game balance and expect balance.

Remove them and work on the balance in the background and reintroduce them when the timeline hits.


AND Really, No MadCaTT votes!

Edited by Lord of All, 30 April 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

I have a secret for you OP. Do not tell any one, but Heavy Metal originated from the Clans.

Also it is 3050 not 3025. We have all sorts of Star League tech in full production including DHS that by the way were already being prototyped for reintroduction in 3030.

[Lord of All]

Nathan Foxbane, on 30 April 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I have a secret for you OP. Do not tell any one, but Heavy Metal originated from the Clans.

Also it is 3050 not 3025. We have all sorts of Star League tech in full production including DHS that by the way were already being prototyped for reintroduction in 3030.

Guess my timeline is screwed up. Either way DHS is the issue here, going to SHS would change things for the better.

Lets not get off track here I'll edit the clan comment out and maybe we can discuss the actual topic and not a diversion of lore timeline.

[Victor Morson]

I still hold that I'd prefer DHS that do not impact core engine HS, while acting as true doubles, so that you only get DHS from ones added on.

I think this would have been a much better solution on Table Top, too, because then you'd only use DHS if you had the slots to mount enough of them, opposed to every single time for the doubling of the core HS (which is also why "double" heatsinks had to be lowered to 40%.)

Don't get me wrong, 40% is better than true double with this setup, but the way they have it now is definitely my 2nd choice for balance.

[EvilCow]

In my opinion DHS should stay but it would be a good idea to make engine DHS equal to external DHS, too much "free" cooling power right now (no additional weight nor space, just DHS conversion fee).

For example DHS could give a 1.5 cooling regardless if internal or external.

A more extreme solution would be to make engine HS always SHS, no free cooling at all (MWLL solution and probably they got it right...).

Edited by EvilCow, 30 April 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Hammerfinn]

All canon aside (and the DHS are, in fact, canon), removing DHS would be a terrible move. I think heat needs balancing, but this idea is one of the worst suggestions I've seen so far. The real heat-balance problem is the heat threshold, not dissipation.

[Volthorne]

Lord of All, on 30 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

They were not in battletech so yes I'm talking about the timeline and game balance. All the arguments that SHS are worthless are of course correct but it is because DHS is introduced to early. You cannot change such a major part of the game balance and expect balance. Remove them and work on the balance in the background and reintroduce them when the timeline hits. AND Really, No MadCaTT votes!

The Helm Memory Core (discovered in 3028 by the GDL - we're in 3050 just for reference) allowed the production of technology thought previously lost - such as DHS, LB-10X's, UAC-5's, and other cool things. These will have been very rare just after finding said Memory Core, but at this point in the timeline most of those will be very common.

Actually knowing what you're talking about before trying to talk about it not only helps your arguemnt, but makes you not look like a tool.

[Lord of All]

Volthorne, on 30 April 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The Helm Memory Core (discovered in 3028 by the GDL - we're in 3050 just for reference) allowed the production of technology thought previously lost - such as DHS, LB-10X's, UAC-5's, and other cool things. These will have been very rare just after finding said Memory Core, but at this point in the timeline most of those will be very common.

Actually knowing what you're talking about before trying to talk about it not only helps your arguemnt, but makes you not look like a tool.

Ignoring the OP "And please just argue the DHS removal." makes you look like a tool. and also make you look like your trying to avoid the issue by distraction.

And there were no DHS in Battletech TT period. Neither was there in City Tech, I stopped playing about =when Aerotech came out.. I don't care what somebody wrote in later about lost tech. I was there traveling the country playing TT back then were you?

Edited by Lord of All, 30 April 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[shabowie]

Lord of All, on 30 April 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Ignoring the OP "And please just argue the DHS removal." makes you look like a tool.

I think trying to arbitrarily limit the discussion to one facet when he has a really weak idea from multiple angles is unfair. Doesn't make anyone look bad to ignore that request and raise other points.

[Hellcat420]

Lord of All, on 30 April 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Unbalances Game.

I see alot Of threads to remove SHS and that is the exact opposite of what is needed. Most of the problems and complaint threads I've seen can all be laid to at the feet of DHS tech.

Clan Tech shouldn't even be here. Redacted because my timeline is wrong and my lore is severely lacking and I have no intention of reading it all . I would just like to play a balanced game that is as intended by the original Battletech which looks to me like is getting farther away every thread.

And please just argue the DHS removal.

dhs are starleague tech, the clans just improved them during the exodus. dhs belong in battletech more than the mechlab, not sure why you want them removed(and no the problems of this game cant be laid at the feet of dhs).

Edited by Hellcat420, 30 April 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[Volthorne]

Lord of All, on 30 April 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Ignoring the OP "And please just argue the DHS removal." makes you look like a tool. and also make you look like your trying to avoid the issue by distraction.

And there were no DHS in Battletech TT period. Neither was there in City Tech, I stopped playing about =when Aerotech came out.. I don't care what somebody wrote in later about lost tech. I was there traveling the country playing TT back then were you?

Excuse me for opening a tab and then only getting to it hours later? Some of us can't sit around and spout ******** all day you know.

I don't care when you played that TT or what the rules were back then. As it stands now, DHS are canonical, and will never go away. If you want to play without DHS, fine, there are a bunch of us trying to get DHS and SHS both useable instead of only the former, so I suggest you find one of those threads and contribute to it in a meaningful way. The game timeline states that we have certain pieces of tech available to us, so not having them wouldn't be good for the game in multiple ways - playerbase would decrease substantially (no DHS means no Tech2, or Clans. Goodbye ER and Pulse lasers and Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous!), weapon variety would decrease to only the most heat efficient (hello Gauss/SLasWarrior Online!), and everyone would immediately arms-race for Assaults (what point is there to using a Light 'Mech if all the upgrades to make a useful one don't exist?). Please, explain to me your reasoning behind removing DHS being a good idea.

Also, I fail to see how age factors into this arguement.

Edited by Volthorne, 30 April 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Syllogy]

No.

[blinkin]

Syllogy, on 30 April 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

No.

the vote is pretty telling.

2 yes and 37 no.

[Dragonkindred]

Sorry OP, but what you are asking doesn't fix anything. To remove DHS would mean you need to re-balance every single weapon in MWO and every weapon that is in production. That is not a fix. The better fix is just to balance weapons from this point onwards, which is what PGI have said that they are always doing.

I vote no.

[MustrumRidcully]

I am more in favor of removing SHS and balance the game around DHS...

SHS are like a "Rusty Shortsword" in CRPGs - starter gear, useless, weak, but you're expected to upgrade. At endgame, you wield +10 Vorpal Greatswords, and the game is balanced at that top level.