27 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

I will preface this with the remark that I don't think that is necessarily the best way to deal with PPC alpha-warrior online. I would prefer operating on the heat model and lower the heat capacity but raise the dissipation. But I want to throw some other options in the ring:

Give PPCs a beam duration (instead of a projectile speed) like lasers.

Rationale:
One of the biggest advantages of firing large PPC alphas is that you get very good precision that way, and if you hit, most or all of your damage will hit the same hit location. Whether it's the hit location you wanted to hit might depend on additional factors, but just dealing 40-60 damage to one location has value - the next hit at that location is likely to hurt much more, so even if the enemy is torso twisting and using erratic movement to avoid getting hit at the same spot - even smaller hits can start hurting. And of course, if you're lucky with a 40-60 damage alpha, it's a head shot. So there are very few drawbacks.

Projectile Weapons like the PPC or Gauss Rifles are the ones that have this benefit the most - beam weapons have a duration, and so even if you aim really well and can hold your reticule perfectly on the target, the enemy can react and deflect some of the damage and you wil llikely spread your damage around.

So, my idea is simple - change the PPC from an energy projectile weapon to a energy beam weapon like Lasers. To keep some of its unique appeal, the duration of the "beam" could be shorter than most weapons, like 0.25 to 0.5 seconds. Even that time frame will lower pinpoint precision - especially for "Poptarters" that now have to maintain the PPC beam on target as they jump, shooting at the highest point where the mech stands (almost) still can'T negate the effects of movement anymore.

(This approach could also be applied to ballistic weapons, if necessary - say, if PGI gives us Gausszilla - Instead of firing a single projectile, each shot could release a short burst of projectiles.)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 01 May 2013 - 01:37 AM.

[Brilig]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 May 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

if PGI gives us Gausszilla - Instead of firing a single projectile, each shot could release a short burst of projectiles.)

That IF really needs to be more of a WHEN. When PGI gives us Gauszilla.

Also interesting idea, but I do not like it. I say tweak convergence to fight high alpha strike damage issues.

[Funky Bacon]

We don't need more beam weapons. PPC's are fine, it's the boating that is not.

[Syllogy]

I agree with the majority: No.

[Mechteric]

It can be balanced through heat, damage, and cycle times (DPS/HPS), there's no need to make it exactly like a laser. There's a need for an energy weapon that doesn't hit scan, it just needs the appropriate side effects. Most likely they can put PPCs heat and cycle times back to where they were before they were buffed some months ago (I think when they got ECM null capability).

[Banditman]

There are better ways to fix the PPC problem, if PGI decides they want to fix it at all. That is the real issue, getting PGI to acknowledge that it is a problem, and come up with a solution.

[Nathan Foxbane]

One problem OP. If they do as you suggest PPCs stop being PPCs and start being lasers with a very unusual property (ECM disruption).

[Zolaz]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 May 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

Give PPCs a beam duration (instead of a projectile speed) like lasers.

Welcome to Mechwarrior Online. PPCs are ballistic energy weapons.

[Hammerfinn]

I agree, this is not the best way to fix the problem. The problem is heat threshold, not PPC mechanics.

Edited by Hammerfinn, 03 May 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[Jape]

Yes, lower the heat capacity/threshold. PPC is fine.

[Karl Streiger]

Nope ... PPC were fine...once
Long time ago....

PPC are beam weapons... its a charged particle beam weapon.... and because its a beam of charged particles....they should not even be able to hit the same spot...because you know what happens when you try to connect two pieces with the same polarisation.

But its BattleTech and not SicFi...so i will look the other way...and also forget that CPBW won't work in vakuum...what renders PPC useless for Dropships and Aerofighter....

Toying around with the "beam" duration will open a complete new field of balancing....not just alpha, dps, hps statistics.
(Just a single pulse - of 0.25 sec for Medium Laser -damage for 1.75 ) but recharge rate of 1sec
Beam Duration for Autocannons....real bursts of fire.

While I think weapon balance allone, it is not the real problem of the half and half team shooter mech simulation - any idea is worth thinking.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 May 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Xendojo]

PPC is not a beam weapon?

Hello! McFly!

[ArmageddonKnight]

No.

As u correctly stated at the top of ur post..there are far better ways to deal with hotboating ..the main one being heat capacity and cooloff speed.

PPC's r perfectly fine as they are, any nerf will adversly affect those loadout that do not boat them.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 03 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Lege]

What PGI doesn't seem to understand is the trade off of heat vs range. They keep trying to balance around damage and heat. You have to have ranged weapons have higher heat/damage to have balance. Let's look at the Large Laser vs the Medium Laser. Forget for a moment the weight and focus on the heat/damage. TT balances this by making the heat/damage lower on the medium laser. MWO has made large energy weapons not only more heat efficient, they have three times the range. With the weight saving technologies of endo, xl and ferro, the weight becomes a mute point. On top of that, they reduced the PPC heat to levels of the heat efficiency nearly of a small laser. I'm sure it will get nerfed eventually. They have taken a stance against boating, whatever people decide is the best weapon of the moment and boat 5-6 of, they are going to nerf into the ground. Just look at what they did to splatcats and you know it's going to happen to the 6 ppc stalker.

[Koniving]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 May 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

(This approach could also be applied to ballistic weapons, if necessary - say, if PGI gives us Gausszilla - Instead of firing a single projectile, each shot could release a short burst of projectiles.)

As I recall, the AC/20 in MW2's PS1 version actually fired 20 bullets. The AC/10 fired 10. AC/2 fired 2. Etc. So it wouldn't quite be a far cry.

Edited by Koniving, 04 May 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Koniving, on 04 May 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

As I recall, the AC/20 in MW2's PS1 version actually fired 20 bullets. The AC/10 fired 10. AC/2 fired 2. Etc. So it wouldn't quite be a far cry.

That's true. A change like that would mean that every weapon would have some degree of spread to it. Could be a good change. Not sure if PGI would be likely to do that much work on so many weapon systems though.

[Koniving]

Keifomofutu, on 04 May 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

That's true. A change like that would mean that every weapon would have some degree of spread to it. Could be a good change. Not sure if PGI would be likely to do that much work on so many weapon systems though.

Not likely to happen. But if you recall they are doing variations of weapons by manufacturer. Some with different recycle rates, ranges, etc. Perhaps something along those lines could produce another avenue of variation. For example perhaps some Gauss fires two slugs of 7.5. An AC/20 by such and such fires a burst of 20 smaller rounds that deal 1 damage, or 10 that deal 2 damage, etc with greater range in exchange for its penalty of not directly doing 20 to one specific area. Another variation of the AC/20 could use an armor piercing shell that does x damage to armor and x damage to internals at some cost.

Naturally each "version" of the weapon or company's product would have different benefits and penalties.

I'm certain that there will be versions of the PPCs with their own merits. Perhaps a beam duration version might appear? I know the current ones do a little splash damage.

Skeptics can simply watch below.

Spoiler

I confess though, if you go by this picture of me in a Raven 2x, the PPC does have a beam of sort that should have the damage be dealt gradually.

Raven, Koniving.
Screenshot, Lordred.

Check out Lordred's screenshot thread!

[Ialti]

Like most other folks who voted, I don't believe that PPC's should turn into just another kind of laser. That is all.

[armyof1]

I feel there are plenty of other things you can do to PPC like rate of fire, heat, damage etc that you can tweak before you start making it into a semi-laser.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

(ER)PPCs are OK. Boating is OK. They are not the problem, only symptoms.
The problem is heatscale with high threshold and no consequences of running hot. Those things need fixing, not PPCs.