26 replies to this topic

[Homeless Bill]

By "that other guy," I mean that unwashed, unsavory, horrible-smelling bum who is utterly devoid of skill, incredibly stupid, and with my scrub ways, I cannot help but to ignore capturing in favor of the thrill of combat.

Why do I do this horrible thing?

In most cases, because the base is both far away and boring once I get there. If there's a light on my base, he's just pulling me away and will run off when I get there. If I was on their base, I'd be costing my team a combatant and robbing myself of what little self respect I have left.

Rage often ensues. Which doesn't work in my favor. It's usually my team telling me what a stupid ******* I am in chat. If only I had gone to capture or just run out the timer, we could have won.

Most of the time, I continue fighting. Why do I do this horrible thing?

Because I don't give a **** if we lose. This is a game I play to have fun; I don't give a flying **** about your win/loss ratio or how bad you want those few extra C-Bills. The enemy team is overstretched. In strategic, abstract terms applicable to the setting, they're looking pretty lonely, and I'm just the friend they need.

It doesn't always work. I've been absolutely shredded by the remaining opponents. That's fine. Sometimes I even go stand in the box (when it's closer than enemies are) and take a smoke break. I actually welcome it.

What I don't welcome is the shrill, nasal rage I get for doing what I do. I've heard it all before - both in-game chat and on this forum. There's nothing you can say that I haven't heard already if you're a part of the "the only tactical, skillful way to play is to play exactly as I expect you to, on my terms, under conditions favorable to me" crowd.

I'd welcome some metagame changes - a whole lot of them. Adding a team deathmatch mode like King of the Hill would satisfy my barbaric need to kill while improving the experience of the guy in the paragraph above by getting me the hell out of his objective mode.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 01 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

Neverfar, on 01 May 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I must have hit pretty close to the mark if you went through all this trouble.

I agree with you that there's no point in bitching about capping. It's a valid way to win, it's a part of the mode, and as much as I hate it most of the time, it's there to stay. I don't like being in your playpen, and I'm pretty sure you don't like being in mine. Your post perfectly laid out the plight of your people, and I don't disagree with it; you folks get a lot of hate.

I think the game would be better off as a whole if they'd separate these two crowds. It's not even that I'd only ever play TDM. But it is what I'd play most of the time, and it would make both of our games better.

[Karazyr]

ive been told to die when im the only person left in my spider 5D with no weapons left, (shameful btw assault pilots need to get better) i kindly told them to eat massive amounts of d*cks a win is a win,

but most of the time when im the last one left im in 'ok' condition, so i go toe to toe with a atlas or awesome and win, (unless they get lucky and hit my leg) tbh man play how you want, id rather watch a fun game than win.

[Livewyr]

Same thing I said in the thread you're trying to mock:


There is a middle ground:
it involves an offense, and a defense, rather than the Giant death blob going around and simply trying to annihilate the enemy with overwhelming firepower.

Why are we stuck in the deathblob rut? Because the majority have that mentality....rather than seeing the base capture mechanic as a consideration in the team's plan for victory, they see it is the CHEAP or EASY button only to be used if the 100% offense has failed.

You can't convince someone to go defense because most people don't see immediate results with it, therefore it is boring.
Even those of us who wanted to do defense (when we still actually played) couldn't do it because after we fended off the occasional light mech, we get hit by the enemy deathblob offense that our deathblob offense missed or failed to divert..

So unfortunately: due to the lack of depth in the player base, Base capper is always going to be seen as "that guy" and there is nothing PGI can do about that.


(I WOULD be THAT guy.. if PGI fixed a few balance issues and the playerbase had some depth beyond the two "camps")

[Mr 144]

Capping needs to exist for a number of talked to death reasons...TDM simply will cause more problems than it will solve.

Before Alpine and Turpentine, Conquest was actually a better mode for those that love a fight contrary to popular belief. The maps were of decent size, meaning regardless of group mentality, it was relatively easy to take 2 points and fight for the 3rd...or play ring-around-the-rosie with caps until the gravity well inexorablly drew the two blobs together. Winning by points was pretty much always a last ditch save, and my preferred mode for this reason.

The two large maps killed conquest imo. On these maps...dedicated light cappers are all but impossible to stop unless met with like-minded oppostion. On all of the smaller maps, this is not an issue, as tactics can force engagements by approaching from multiple routes...aka, corner the light. A & T have no recourse...3 assaults left vs. 1 light with 5 minutes left to go with even points and caps at epsilon on Alpine?...DC...game over..light wins. This is not true on small maps...not even close.

Assault on the large maps are even worse. You either commit...or camp. Lucky for those that enjoy the style...sniper wars are the smartest play here. There is simply not time for anything to respond to cap from past center unless you're a light.

I don't think there is any sort of 'fix' for this...it's just the nature of the game...and the 'fun' is starting to go stale when no one even moves when 'base is under attack' lights up because everyone knows it's fultile at that point anyhow.

Long story short....
stale game is getting stale...
rock/paper/scissors broken for far to long...
lack of game depth makes most games moot after 3 minutes to the trained eye...

Mr 144

Edit: Unbelievable that I ahve to log on to the site 3 times just to complete one post...what's the log-out time at now, 3 minutes?

[Denno]

I don't play fat, stompy robots to sit in a magical box. I play fat, stompy robots to try and whale on other fat, stompy robots.
Capping is part of the game, sure, but the fight is where it's at.

[Fooooo]

I'd love for the pure TDM crowd to get their wish.

I'd also love to read all the crying in the forums from this same crowd complaining about people running out the timer instead of fighting.


Anyone else feeling deja-vu ?

*cough*

CB

*cough*

Edited by Fooooo, 02 May 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Huntsman]

It's a semi-valid way to win:

- on smaller maps
- when it becomes a cap race that someone on the other team started
- because your team is way out-tonnaged
- because your team is losing badly and it's a last ditch effort to pull off a win.

What it is not is a primary tactic, on a large map, to end a match before it's even begun because you're a troll, and then go on to prop up your behavior with "oh, well ya should have had someone defending your base" or some other logic confounding justification.

Ultimately base caps really should be removed from Assault mode. The game is meant to be played, and playing the game does not mean competative capping. No you are not being clever for winning the match in this way. No I'm not a "Modern Warfare" player for saying so. Yes, you wear buttocks for a hat if you think so.

Edited by Huntsman, 02 May 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Mr 144]

Huntsman, on 02 May 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

What it is not is a primary tactic

QFT...the only way I can think to enforce this though is an arbitrary cap timer...i.e. no cap until 7:30 timer...half-way through a match...on assault.

Mr 144

[Joseph Mallan]

Huntsman, on 02 May 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

It's a semi-valid way to win:

- on smaller maps
- when it becomes a cap race that someone on the other team started
- because your team is way out-tonnaged
- because your team is losing badly and it's a last ditch effort to pull off a win.

What it is not is a primary tactic, on a large map, to end a match before it's even begun because you're a troll, and then go on to prop up your behavior with "oh, well ya should have had someone defending your base" or some other logic confounding justification.

Ultimately base caps really should be removed from Assault mode. The game is meant to be played, and playing the game does not mean competative capping. No you are not being clever for winning the match in this way. No I'm not a "Modern Warfare" player for saying so. Yes, you wear buttocks for a hat if you think so.

Yet you are fulfilling the Primary Mission Objective by sitting in a laser square... (Capture the base). Killing the enemy is icing on the cake.

[Lostdragon]

You know what I would like to see? Assault mode where the mission is to actually... assault something. One team assaults, one team defends. There is a fight over the objective and everyone gets to shoot. Ending an assault match without firing a shot happens way to often now when the blobs don't meet in the middle and both decide to base rush. That is no fun.

[Keifomofutu]

It used to be even worse when cap rewards were higher. Cap races happened all the time. Of course it was completely nonsensical. Who cares who cap's the other guy's base first? After all both teams just lost their base woo hoo we just played Tradezies only none of our parts fit in your mechs and vice versa.

Also don't both raiding Denny's locker its full of Soy Milk and Meat Flavoured Bean, enjoy.

[Griffinhart]

Treat cappers like this:

Lone Wolf cappers are nothing more than solo mech pilots calling out for single combat and the red text saying base is being captured is nothing more than a way for them to easily tell everyone where he is.

Groups of mechs capping are nothing more than the other team deciding they didn't like you dictating where the brawl was going to be and have chosen your base as a better place to battle.

[lordlazarus]

/ignore chat

[Cham King]

Any time I scout an enemy formation and see all heavy/assualt mechs my correct assumption is that every one is loaded for bear with ppc/gauss/ac20 meaning no matter how good i pilot I will be shot down with little effort or skill (i've played these build and it's ez mode). So the result of that is you are going to get auto capped by defualt and I will preform that cap in the most sneaky underhanded way possible to give you as close to 0% chance of defending against it as possible.

[Joseph Mallan]

I love sneaky underhanded bastages!

[Homeless Bill]

Fooooo, on 02 May 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

I'd also love to read all the crying in the forums from this same crowd complaining about people running out the timer instead of fighting.

Which is why I'm a proponent of the King of the Hill solution to that problem. TDM without anything to prevent the run-around will be an utter failure - much worse than what we have now. If they ever do it at all, they better do it right.

[Huntsman]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 May 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I love sneaky underhanded bastages!

...and I'm sure if it took the slightest bit of sneakiness or cleverness to succeed at capping out the enemy base on a large map we would all be very impressed with your skills. It requires nothing however, other than your desire to opt out of playing that match, and the decision to take the other 15 players along with you.

Edited by Huntsman, 02 May 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[silentD11]

Quote

.I don't play fat, stompy robots to sit in a magical box. I play fat, stompy robots to try and whale on other fat, stompy robots.
Capping is part of the game, sure, but the fight is where it's at.

Oh capping makes for better fights.. We had a match on Alpine the other night that was great.

Our lights pushed down the lower road, turned out their lights had taken the higher road but nobody knew this. Ran into a dragon and a cent of all things guarding the lower road so we had to pull back to our main blob dodging the shots and dog fighting them all the way. While one of our heavies had to go peeling off the group to slow down the cap on our base.

Of course since their blob was colliding with our blob the issue with the furball of our lights and those chasing us was a jockey of who could pull who to the other blob for the upper hand. By the time this was sorted out and we had the upper hand our poor heavy was dead at our base. But he didn't waste his time as he slowed it down enough for our remaining light to go back there, stall it only to die, which bought enough time for our main force to catch up and nail him.

Nice, dynamic battle all over the damn map with people moving about and trying to stall out, force the other to move, and a push and tug. So much better than rushing to a slug fest or a firing line.

[Homeless Bill]

silentD11, on 02 May 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Nice, dynamic battle all over the damn map with people moving about and trying to stall out, force the other to move, and a push and tug. So much better than rushing to a slug fest or a firing line.

You paint an incredibly rosy picture of how Assault plays out. There are rounds like that, and they're great, but they rarely happen. When you're in anything but a light (and sometimes a medium), it boils down to tromping to the same spot of the map and duking it out.

On Tourmaline, it's the crater; on Alpine, it's Epsilon; on Caustic, it's the caldera; on Frozen, it's the ridge; on Forest, it varies, but it's almost always a sniper match because no one wants to get capped out; on River City, you get more variation, but even then it's usually a fight over upper city.

Once everyone is engaged, one of two things will happen:
1. Nothing. Sometimes there's a good brawl that ensues, but usually one team whittles the other down and then steamrolls them.
2. A light tags base to capture. It means someone has to play the run-around game with a light to avoid losing. Even worse is when the other team's light steps on the opposing base, ensuring a base race to the end.

It sucks for the heavier 'mechs because if they try any sort of aggressive tactic, they'll get back-captured. When you're organized, you can do a lot. But in PUGs, everyone cautiously sits close enough to base just in case. It turns the match into a campfest. I just want a mode where I can make strategic choices like flanking without fearing losing to a single light from behind.

Assault works just fine for 8v8 (or when you're organized in general), but in PUGs, both modes right now are just a nightmare for players like me.