75 replies to this topic

[blinkin]

Infosus, on 02 May 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Isn't the A1 with all the SSRMs or SRMs?
Those things punch really REALLY hard, getting shot by one throws people off (maybe just me?) so i guess that's why there isn't that many head shots on them, another reason is you take the other mech down real quick.

Anything other than those builds, ones without the holy cr@p boom weapons will get hit often in the head.

the ones without that are likely LRM boats and if the team is doing their job the catapult should rarely encounter any direct fire weapons.

generally speaking a good SRM catapult pilot should rely on surprise. my best games come from making my way behind enemy lines and hitting the target with a couple volleys before they have even turned around. when i am playing well most of my targets seem to think that i am a light mech.

[Kaspirikay]

blinkin, on 03 May 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

the ones without that are likely LRM boats and if the team is doing their job the catapult should rarely encounter any direct fire weapons.

generally speaking a good SRM catapult pilot should rely on surprise. my best games come from making my way behind enemy lines and hitting the target with a couple volleys before they have even turned around. when i am playing well most of my targets seem to think that i am a light mech.

>couple of volleys

Those are some horrible players. 1volley is excusable, but a few is one too many.

[blinkin]

Kaspirikay, on 03 May 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

>couple of volleys

Those are some horrible players. 1volley is excusable, but a few is one too many.

many players get panicked and confused when they suddenly lose all of their rear armor without warning. if those are horrible players, then the majority of players i have encountered are horrible players.

[Infosus]

Put it this way:
If you drop two different colours in milk and give it a gentle swirl they will eventually mix

Same for the mechs, eventually the second line mechs will be in front lines your right in saying the "catapult should rarely encounter any direct fire weapons." BUT if they do, which they will at some point, they have the giant sign above their head saying "Shoot here plz!"

Regarding the SRM cats, yes surprising and giving the enemy the wow factor will kill everyone on the team meaning they won't really get a chance to shoot you. I've seen some SRM cats fail at being sneaking and get blown apart. (with the head close to critical)

[GoatHILL]

Sa7aN, on 02 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

they need to fix cockpits before the madcat comes around or you will see some really pissed madcat players

That thing deserved to be head shot.

[Slab Squathrust]

Infosus, on 02 May 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

My point was the potential to head shot a cat is a lot higher than most mechs. You may not have drop them but you must have at least remove some or most of the head armour at some point. Then all it takes is a couple of laser or acs to finish it off.

The cicada is a light mech so it relies on speed to move out of the way, so i guess that balances the it out although im not really sure. Just saying the big hit box is not necessary on the cat.

I dare say the cat is almost like the cataphrat (don't hate me)

giant upper body, easy to hit, giant looking cockpit but a small hit box.

the cat: easy to hit ct, giant looking cockpit but with a giant hit box

I tend to agree with other posters here. That is the catapult's drawback. The big CT and head hit box. Like others have said the small side torsos on the catapult make it very appealing to run an XL engine with very little drawback. In most heavies and assault mechs it is absolutely foolish to try and run an XL. The jaegermech sacrifices armor with its massive drawback, the size of the side torsos. It is far easier to core a jaeger running an XL, or neuter it (by removing the side torso and arm weapons) than a catapult.

[Dauphni]

I think we've more or less reached a consensus here: Yes, the cockpit is oversized, especially compared to the other Mechs, but it's actually somewhat of a compensation for its other strengths.

Personally I mostly agree with that. I do feel that the cockpit hitbox is a little too large, but certainly not vastly so.

[Infosus]

Uite Dauphni, on 03 May 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

I think we've more or less reached a consensus here: Yes, the cockpit is oversized, especially compared to the other Mechs, but it's actually somewhat of a compensation for its other strengths.

Personally I mostly agree with that. I do feel that the cockpit hitbox is a little too large, but certainly not vastly so.

Hooray! I like your banner thing btw looks cool
So can the devs change the size now? XP

[Jakob Knight]

Slab Squathrust, on 03 May 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

. It is far easier to core a jaeger running an XL, or neuter it (by removing the side torso and arm weapons) than a catapult.

Actually, not true. Since a Jaeger has two side torsos, some of the hits will go to one, some to the other, increasing the damage generally needed to core one. A Catapult has only one Center Torso, that takes all those hits. While it starts out with more armor (normally), it takes considerably more damage, making the Catapult equal or easier to core.

However, all that is moot to a Catapult, really. When all you have to do is 25 points to a mech to kill it (headshot on a Catapult, which is the easiest to do of any mech, for the reasons already posted), all the other armor on the mech really doesn't matter, does it?

I supported the large headbox as a payment back when the mech had advantages. Those advantages have been removed, so should the disadvantages. Either that, or give it back its torso range and/or make LRMs the long-ranged weapons they were supposed to be when this disadvantage got put in. Right now, the lack of either one makes the large hitbox on the mech indefensible.

[Denno]

I love the Catapult chasis but I hardly run them anymore because of this issue. It's almost always death due to cockpit hit.
Every time I see one now, which is pretty rare, I go for the head and am usually successful. The only thing worse to drive is an Awesome (ct) really.

[Adridos]

Man... you could never pilot a true mech like a Dragon.

FFS, it's a long-range support mech. The big cockpit is an advantage so you can see the enemies better. That you are using the Catapult like it is some vitty nitty assault made specially for spearheading an attack doesn't make us bad designers. Using the wrong tools for the job... always. Next time, you'll come here asking us to alter viroblades because you tried to skin apples with one turned on.

Militia... back in my day, you couldn't even hope of riding a constrution gantry, let alone a mech... pff...

[Infosus]

yes okay we get it, big cockpit = nice view, yes cat is support
But why does it need the big hit box? I'll say it again its not necessary.

And yes again it is support mech we all know but what happens when the fight comes to you? It happens.
then you get punched in the face by a guass or ac 20

Edited by Infosus, 03 May 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Adridos]

Infosus, on 03 May 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

And yes again it is support mech we all know but what happens when the fight comes to you? It happens.
then you get punched in the face by a guass or ac 20

What happens to a sniper who gets outflanked by a spy/ another player?

Your main engagement range is at such huge distances where your cockpit represents just a handful of pixels. If you get into AC/20 range, you screwed up heavily and brought a knife to a gunfight.

[Cyke]

Let me say this again.

The size of the head hit area should NOT be used as one of these methods for balancing a 'Mech.
Maximum head durability is consistent (read: consistently fragile) among every 'Mech in the game, and head destruction results in instant death.

There are lots of variables to balance a 'Mech's capabilities, including its default torso twist speed, default foot turn speed, acceleration, deceleration, etc (which are all affected by engine size, but the default multiplier can be tweaked). All these can be used to balance the good hardpoint sets and torso twist limit that the Catapult series enjoys.
Head size is NOT one of the ways to balance a 'Mech.

However, I'm certain PGI did not do this deliberately. It's an issue that either they're not aware of yet, or haven't had the time to tweak.

[KKillian]

As a cockpit hunter I must admit catapults that are not moving are my favorite thing to headshot hands down. I even landed my jenner ontop of one and rode him around shooting strait down and managed to get a cockpit shot when I could not even see what I was firing at, I just knew I was standing on him and to fire strait down. I'd pay good money to anyone that happened to get a screenshot of that btw.

Stalker cockpit is slightly raised and a light mech cannot directly hit it due to the angle of the nose, where as catapults angled down is MUCH easier. Awesome are another extremely easy mech to cockpit shot if they stop moving. In the catapults defense, it is extremely hard to focus much heat directly on a cockpit that is moving, hell on any mech. Those k2's that stop to line up shots however, are as good as dead.


Also, it seems like hitbox's are slightly bigger than their visual graphics, being if you fire slightly "over" a cockpit it will still register the hit from the side directly into the cockpit. Thank god aimbots are not popular in this community.

Edited by KKillian, 03 May 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Adridos]

Cyke, on 03 May 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Let me say this again.

The size of the head hit area should NOT be used as one of these methods for balancing a 'Mech.

Give it a small cockpit/unhittable hitbox and it's not even Catapult anymore. Suck it up... I'm playing a Dragon consistently and even with that barn of a CT that is unmissable from any angle or distance and with even less capabilities than your Catapult, I don't ***** about it.

[Kaspirikay]

blinkin, on 03 May 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

many players get panicked and confused when they suddenly lose all of their rear armor without warning. if those are horrible players, then the majority of players i have encountered are horrible players.

>before they have even turned around
>panicked and confused

wat

[MeiSooHaityu]

Sa7aN, on 02 May 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

they need to fix cockpits before the madcat comes around or you will see some really pissed madcat players

Uhh the Madcat/Timberwolf uses special CLAN GLASS...yea...yea... and it has WAY more armor then regular glass....Yea..That's the ticket!

[Lefty Lucy]

MeiSooHaityu, on 03 May 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Uhh the Madcat/Timberwolf uses special CLAN GLASS...yea...yea... and it has WAY more armor then regular glass....Yea..That's the ticket!

It's already been established in-game that "cockpit" != "canopy glass".

[Lightfoot]

@OP

Well, you are right of course. As a headhunter I can tell you the Catapult cockpit is the easiest to hit in the Heavy class and with the advent of Testing Grounds we all know it's location. That is why it is happening more frequently than in the past. It is too easy to hit, similar to a Jenner, but the Jenner will rarely be struck in the cockpit do to it's speed.