142 replies to this topic

[Ransack]

So I have 19 days to figure out how to squeeze a BAP on my mechs. Finally some ECM begone. If everything works right, I might just stick around past 55 days...

[IceSerpent]

Quote

BAP

If Mech X has BAP, and Mech Y has ECM, and Mech X gets within 150m or less of Mech Y, Mech Y loses all effects of ECM. It is a 100% counter to ECM. Mech Y is now vulnerable to LRMs/S-SRMs as long as Mech X stays within 150m. Any friendly Mechs to Mech Y will no longer be shielded until Mech X leaves the 150m area around Mech Y.

Missile Update:
Missiles are coming along. A lot of stuff has been rewritten and we have to test and retune numbers to get them ready to be released back into the live game.

I for one welcome our new BAP-carrying StreakCat overlords

[TexAce]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Doesn't matter to me either way, I don't play lights.

But trading 1 OP mech for a different OP mech specifically when the second mech has many more tools than the first, is not how you balance a game.

you will be able to kill Jenners same as you did before. So all is good.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Honestly if Streakcats can beat PPC Poptarts...I might be for it at this point.

[Keifomofutu]

TexAss, on 02 May 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

you will be able to kill Jenners same as you did before. So all is good.

They aren't changing ERPPCs yet so easier in fact.

[Trauglodyte]

Regarding BAP, remember that in the novels and other flavor text, it was noted that basic sensors could, if tuned appropriately, jam others. I don't know if there was ever a rule for it but it was there much like PPCs cause brownouts with electronics. So, if BAP is just a majorly enhanced sensor suite, why should it not be able to nullify a system that does nothing but pipe out electronic white noise? It isn't like it is a full on ECM in counter mode. It is just going to allow the BAP user to burn through the static and allow it to target its enemy within 150m (120 BAP circle +25% sensor bonus).

The Machine Gun and LB change is nice. I'm not certain that the LB will ever be usable without slug ammor but reducing its spready by 20% is pretty nice. It still won't be worth a darn beyond its maximum effective range as the spread will just be too much but it is still good.

The AC5 change is weird. We don't need it to have more range and why are they making a move on the MG and AC5 to put it beyond TT limits? The AC5 just needs to have its recycle rate tuned down to 1.25 seconds. It would be close to on par with the UAC5 but not replacing it.

[3rdworld]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Regarding BAP, remember that in the novels and other flavor text, it was noted that basic sensors could, if tuned appropriately, jam others. I don't know if there was ever a rule for it but it was there much like PPCs cause brownouts with electronics. So, if BAP is just a majorly enhanced sensor suite, why should it not be able to nullify a system that does nothing but pipe out electronic white noise? It isn't like it is a full on ECM in counter mode. It is just going to allow the BAP user to burn through the static and allow it to target its enemy within 150m (120 BAP circle +25% sensor bonus).

Electronic Counter Measure.

Unless its BAP. it is an electronic that instead of being countered, actually counters the countering equipment.

CECM, Counter Electronic Counter Measure

Soon a MC module will be a CCECM, which will counter any electronic that is currently countering an electronic counter measure.

Edited by 3rdworld, 02 May 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Electronic Counter Measure.

Unless its BAP. it is an electronic that instead of being countered, actually counters the countering equipment.

CECM, Counter Electronic Counter Measure

Soon a MC module will be a CCECM, which will counter any electronic that is currently countering an electronic counter measure.

CCECM sounds very pay to win to me. I think we would need a CCCECM for cbills to balance it out.

[Howdy Doody]

I'm assuming the Crit damage values of the machine guns will increase proportionately.

New Crit values?
14% to do 1 dmg
8% to do 2 dmg
3% to do 3 dmg

Edited by Howdy Doody, 02 May 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[zraven7]

Howdy Doody, on 02 May 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I'm assuming the Crit damage values of the machine guns will increase proportionately.

New Crit values?
14% to do 1 dmg
8% to do 2 dmg
3% to do 3 dmg

These numbers would make 4mg mechs honestly kinda scary.

[MeatForBrains]

jeffsw6, on 02 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I am discouraged by the Machine Gun buff. I think a 100% damage increase and 1/3rd range increase is not nearly enough. Not adjusting their spread, maybe that's tougher to figure out; but ... I don't think they understand how gimp the MG is. They have gone from claiming that MGs were fine and stating that a 6MG Spider could "core the back of an Atlas in seconds" to buffing it 100% and yet, this will not be enough.

MG cycles every 0.25s? Not sure, but that would make a 6MG spider do.......1.96dps.

[Howdy Doody]

Howdy Doody, on 02 May 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I'm assuming the Crit damage values of the machine guns will increase proportionately.

New Crit values?
14% to do 1 dmg
8% to do 2 dmg
3% to do 3 dmg

zraven7, on 02 May 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

These numbers would make 4mg mechs honestly kinda scary.

I agree. I got kind of giddy with the thoughts of sweet, sweet machine gun fire during a battle!

Edited by Howdy Doody, 02 May 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Electronic Counter Measure.

Unless its BAP. it is an electronic that instead of being countered, actually counters the countering equipment.

CECM, Counter Electronic Counter Measure

Soon a MC module will be a CCECM, which will counter any electronic that is currently countering an electronic counter measure.

I get what you're saying and this isn't exactly how I would have done it. That being said, BAP needed some sort of identity to it and now it has it. But isn't like BAP all of a sudden became a direct counter to ECM. You still can't target people under ECM outside of 200m and your not able to pick up the ECM carrier at range on your map screen. This just allows BAP to nullify the 100% counter that ECM had at 180m.

Here is the really funny kicker, though. BAP will help non-ECM carrying Streak users by allowing them the ability to lock on withint 150m. But it won't help LRM users unless they carry TAG cause they can't target anyone outside of the 200m range. It does open up a lot of issues with who is carrying what in premades.

PLUS, this really helps the Light mechs in a major way. Now, you can use any version of the Commando that you want, the MG Spider because a little more relavant (not really but still better than it was before), the other Ravens and Jenners have to make the choice between heat sinks, lasers, or hit accuracy between missile weapons (do I go with normal SRMs and take the chance that I'll miss fast targets or do I take BAP and Streaks?). This is a definite plus for mech variant possibilities.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 02 May 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Sephlock]

General Taskeen, on 02 May 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

BAP joins the long list of Big Fish Balancing!

Equip this, equip that, counter with this, counter with that. So dumb. If I want to use a Record Sheet Challenge Mech, wihout BAP, without TAG, without ECM, without PPC, I guess I'm out of luck.

It is kind of neat that there are multiple counters to fit your playstyle rather than just the one.

[Praehotec8]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Just use a streak pult, mounting BAP will not be hard. When LRMs are good again, you just have to mount a BAP and getting covered by an ecm is no longer an issue.

Well, an LRM mech will still be unable to target distant mechs with ECM, unless running TAG, which is fine. We'll have to see how it pans out, but in my mind, the problem with ECM was always that it was too one-sided and frustrating. A single light anywhere within 180m could completely shut down an LRM mech, TAG or no TAG. Now at least, a mech carrying BAP can still perform its function, and ECM still has a purpose.

[BarHaid]

Wow. And I was just considering pulling a BAP out of my spider. Guess not.

[Braggart]

zraven7, on 02 May 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

These numbers would make 4mg mechs honestly kinda scary.

why, crit damage only applies to items in the mech, not the mech itself.

[Praehotec8]

Trauglodyte, on 02 May 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Here is the really funny kicker, though. BAP will help non-ECM carrying Streak users by allowing them the ability to lock on withint 150m. But it won't help LRM users unless they carry TAG cause they can't target anyone outside of the 200m range.

Actually, it does help LRM users, as they will never be completely "shut down" by ECM mechs that are near to them, making them unable to target anything at all (and this was the more serious problem imo).

[Trauglodyte]

Eh, you just burn through equipment that much faster, Braggart. They're being a little over the top by saying that MGs are scary but at least they'll no longer be inept. Plus, at 0.08 per bullet, the MG will now be doing 160 damage per ton which where ballistics typically sit. Good balance change.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Praehotec8, on 02 May 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Actually, it does help LRM users, as they will never be completely "shut down" by ECM mechs that are near to them, making them unable to target anything at all (and this was the more serious problem imo).

The most frustrating thing for an LRM mech is to have an ECM light shadow you just to disable, but shoot at someone else.

I'm good with trying this change out for size.