142 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

Here is an update on the weapon balance specifics: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2315318

Quote

Update: SOME numbers, and a target date.

Machine Guns
MGs are getting their damage doubled to 0.08/shell.
MG range is going to be 120m and they will fall off to 0 damage at 240m.
MG Spread will remain unchanged for the moment.

LB10-X has had it's cone of fire reduced by 20%, giving it a bit more focused punch through it's travel space.

LRM speed will be increasing from 100m/s to 120m/s. This equates to about 5-10% more missiles hitting a moving target and it's quite a bit harder to dodge LRMs.

AC/5
After reading my last post, I think I was smoking something other than a cigarette when I said AC/5 damage would be changing. AC/5 damage is NOT changing. Their range however is increasing from 540m out to 620m.

NARC is going to have its firing distance increased as well as it's duration. This is still undergoing testing and will have numbers for you when they're ready.

BAP
Now here's the biggie. BAP is meant to increase your sensor range by amplifying your sensor systems. It allows you to get detail targeting information faster and also allows you to detect nearby shutdown Mechs. Yeah? So?... well...

BAP will now negate ECM within 150m (tuning number) of the enemy. Negate? What 'chu talkin' 'bout Paul?

If Mech X has BAP, and Mech Y has ECM, and Mech X gets within 150m or less of Mech Y, Mech Y loses all effects of ECM. It is a 100% counter to ECM. Mech Y is now vulnerable to LRMs/S-SRMs as long as Mech X stays within 150m. Any friendly Mechs to Mech Y will no longer be shielded until Mech X leaves the 150m area around Mech Y.

ECM is now a long range Mech item. A scout can now use it to remain hidden from LRMs while performing their job. A LRM/command Atlas can rain down death while maintaining LoS on their distant targets without worries of LRMs coming back at them.

ECM is now getting a dedicated hardpoint that works just like AMS. It will be located in a dedicated component such as the right or left torso.

ECM will also no longer mess with friendly IDF markings so you always know who's friend and foe.


Missile Update:
Missiles are coming along. A lot of stuff has been rewritten and we have to test and retune numbers to get them ready to be released back into the live game. So far LRM's are looking really good and SRM's are soon to be addressed as well. As of this writing we're putting the final numbers on LRMs so they'll be ready for large scale testing very soon.

DATE: All of the above is expected to be released in the May 21st patch.

The Machine Gun changes are a good step in the right direction. Honestly think setting it to 0.1 per shot would have been fine as it still leaves it pretty weak against armor.

LBX/10 is another good step in the right direction. On the surface, 20% does not seem like enough but I will not be able to test this out for sure until June. The only thing I am looking for is for 8 of the 10 pellets hitting the target at optimum distance against a Medium mech on average.

LRM change is also in the right direction but from 100m/s to 120m/s seems really small. Again, I will not be able to test this until June but it that is only a difference of 10.0s to 8.33s at 1km.

The AC/5 change of 540m to 620m is EXTREMELY odd. Why not reduce the cooldown to match that of the UAC/5 instead of upping the range?

NARC is in need of a duration change (I suggest by 100%, to 30.0s) but the major issue with NARC is that it is easily removed by damage. The 27 damage threshold is what is killing NARC. A single player can just shoot a single LRM/20 or some direct fire weapons and it will be knocked off. That is not enough benefit.

I guess the people of the community who wanted BAP to counter NARC won out here. I think this still just hides the power of ECM with another bandaid. Guess I will have to wait and see in June.

ECM being forced to a location, can't make a comment about it yet. If that heavily affects mechs who utilize it negatively, then it might be a step in the right direction for balance. But as it still stands, ECM is still making a variant the go-to variant.

[Keifomofutu]

Amen.

[zraven7]

Holy crap. One BAP, and the reign of the streak-cat starts anew. Still, at least this gives every mech the ability to negate ECM.

[Keifomofutu]

zraven7, on 02 May 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Holy crap. One BAP, and the reign of the streak-cat starts anew. Still, at least this gives every mech the ability to negate ECM.

ECM was always a bandaid to the streak problem. They are going to have to finally actually deal with streaks themselves.

[3rdworld]

BAP now completely counters ECM.

One of the most heavy handed "balance" changes I have seen in a while.

What is the point of disrupt mode again?

[Zyllos]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

BAP now completely counters ECM.

One of the most heavy handed "balance" changes I have seen in a while.

What is the point of disrupt mode again?

A way to counter ECM without BAP?

It still doesn't deal with the fact that SSRMs are too good in Light on Light matchups.

[jeffsw6]

I am discouraged by the Machine Gun buff. I think a 100% damage increase and 1/3rd range increase is not nearly enough. Not adjusting their spread, maybe that's tougher to figure out; but ... I don't think they understand how gimp the MG is. They have gone from claiming that MGs were fine and stating that a 6MG Spider could "core the back of an Atlas in seconds" to buffing it 100% and yet, this will not be enough.

Total lack of PPC / Gauss discussion, terrible. Just ******* terrible. FFS do they not know that the current meta-game is that half of players are using SNIPER WEAPONS?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Holy F sticks. That is some good reading.

[Keifomofutu]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

BAP now completely counters ECM.

One of the most heavy handed "balance" changes I have seen in a while.

What is the point of disrupt mode again?

ECM is still better than BAP. It can either disrupt people OR counter other ECM. BAP can only counter and at a shorter range. So how is this change a bad thing?

[Ozric]

The news I care about here is the LRM news, and that news is good. A bit of a speed increase was something that pretty much everyone on both sides of the LRM hate train agreed was necessary, and had to be in place before any other numbers would make sense, so that's nice. And even though it looks like we will have to wait a bit longer for missiles to be truly fixed, hopefully the extra time spent testing will mean a more balanced end result.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

jeffsw6, on 02 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I am discouraged by the Machine Gun buff. I think a 100% damage increase and 1/3rd range increase is not nearly enough. Not adjusting their spread, maybe that's tougher to figure out; but ... I don't think they understand how gimp the MG is. They have gone from claiming that MGs were fine and stating that a 6MG Spider could "core the back of an Atlas in seconds" to buffing it 100% and yet, this will not be enough.

Total lack of PPC / Gauss discussion, terrible. Just ******* terrible. FFS do they not know that the current meta-game is that half of players are using SNIPER WEAPONS?

Speaking as one of the people who is VERY hard on PGI.

Accept this stuff as good, and applaud it. And hope they can do this 3 or 4 more times before release to get things where they need to be.

[Zyllos]

jeffsw6, on 02 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I am discouraged by the Machine Gun buff. I think a 100% damage increase and 1/3rd range increase is not nearly enough. Not adjusting their spread, maybe that's tougher to figure out; but ... I don't think they understand how gimp the MG is. They have gone from claiming that MGs were fine and stating that a 6MG Spider could "core the back of an Atlas in seconds" to buffing it 100% and yet, this will not be enough.

Total lack of PPC / Gauss discussion, terrible. Just ******* terrible. FFS do they not know that the current meta-game is that half of players are using SNIPER WEAPONS?

You have to remember, this is an update to the weapon balance discussion that had no mention of PPCs/Gauss. So it makes sense to not see any PPC/Gauss balance discussion here.

But the balance of those two weapons will need work in the future.

[3rdworld]

Keifomofutu, on 02 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

ECM is still better than BAP. It can either disrupt people OR counter other ECM. BAP can only counter and at a shorter range. So how is this change a bad thing?

Jenners - disregard ECM, kill raven.

[zraven7]

Zyllos, on 02 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

A way to counter ECM without BAP?

It still doesn't deal with the fact that SSRMs are too good in Light on Light matchups.

I'm wondering if it means it counters ECM specifically for the mech with the BAP equipped. Like, if you have a BAP, you can see and target them normally, but everyone else can't. I'm hoping that's what it means.

[Zyllos]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 02 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Speaking as one of the people who is VERY hard on PGI.

Accept this stuff as good, and applaud it. And hope they can do this 3 or 4 more times before release to get things where they need to be.

There is no way they can fit 3 or 4 more balancing patches between now and release when it takes 30 days to decided on a new change, test it, then get it out to the community, who breaks it within 24 to 48 hours.

This is where I hope the public test server will come into play. Make a change quickly, have us break it quickly, then add a new change quickly. Hopefully this can happen within a weeks time unless it requires code/object changes.

[zraven7]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Jenners - disregard ECM, kill raven.

Oh, I'm already working parts of my brain trying to figure out how to shoe-horn another 1.5 tons onto my Jennies, trust me.

[Braggart]

Guess i wont be playing for a while. The patching process has got to be sped up.

I am happy they are doing something. But it is taking far to long.

Seriously, they waste months at a time between weapon balancing. And because of that they get no good balance feedback because current meta is missing missles entirely. So we are still atleast 3 months away from them balancing anything else, or them breaking something else and causing months of worthless data.

I mean this in the nicest possible way... Get your **** together. Less trying to get money out of my pocket before i quit, and more getting this game ready for launch so i wont quit and want to spend money.

[Monky]

The BAP fix really stands out here. I am glad they are finally doing something definitive to make ECM bearable.

However;

This is unbattletech/mechwarrior like, it removes the flavor of what this game is inspired by.
This is unnecessary in regards to a battletech like ECM/BAP/Electronics setup if that had been adopted in the first place.
This is coming extremely late in beta after a long community schism on how ECM affects the game.

I am glad that something is being done that can definitively counter ECM with the same level of skill that ECM requires, but that it took this implementation and this long, is about all that needs to be said.

[Keifomofutu]

3rdworld, on 02 May 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Jenners - disregard ECM, kill raven.

As the best gunboat of the light class shouldn't that be their job anyway? This whole ravens act as both disruption of the entire enemy team AND the best light hunter was wildly imbalanced against the other lights.

[Zyllos]

zraven7, on 02 May 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'm wondering if it means it counters ECM specifically for the mech with the BAP equipped. Like, if you have a BAP, you can see and target them normally, but everyone else can't. I'm hoping that's what it means.

Hmm, that is a good question indeed.

I still think ECM should not be hiding all other mechs within 180m but only increase the lockon time by 100% (or whatever it does now for locking on). The mech with ECM equipped should gain all the current benefits.

Edited by Zyllos, 02 May 2013 - 10:56 AM.