77 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 08 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Look. I'll try to be more polite than Hammerborn but I understand his frustration.

This thread keeps popping up. The Base Cap is in there for a reason. Removing it removes all the reasons it is in there. TDM is 4th grade play and while YOU may not consider base capping to be fun or tactical your opinion does not make it fact.

I enjoy capping the base. Do I enjoy standing in a square? No... what I do enjoy is disrupting the enemy team. If this was an MMO you would probably find me playing a Crowd Control class. The easiest way to disrupt the enemy in MWO is to flank them and either shoot them in the back or stand on their base.

If the enemy is spread out I'll happily shoot them in the back. If they are clumped up then it would be suicidal to pop more than one or two shots at them and I'll simply move on to their base. THAT spreads them out so I can face in smaller numbers as can my teammates. It multiples the force I am bringing to bear and is tactical.

If the enemy spreads out a bit and takes the time to actually look around, they will likely spot me and I will hesitate to take them on frontally or go against overlapping fields of fire. I won't sneak past them to go to their base but will rejoin my team and use the cover of the bigger mechs to harass the enemy.

If you remove the bases there is little to no reason for a team to split up and/or move from a tactical position once in it. "Clump up, when you see an enemy everyone shoot it." become the majority tactic which is even less than what there is currently.

Bah, capping is the home of the tank class. Cause there's no better way to taunt and draw massive amounts of aggro from both teams than to hop on that square and yell....

Problem?

[Atheus]

Mercules, on 08 May 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Look. I'll try to be more polite than Hammerborn but I understand his frustration.

This thread keeps popping up. The Base Cap is in there for a reason. Removing it removes all the reasons it is in there. TDM is 4th grade play and while YOU may not consider base capping to be fun or tactical your opinion does not make it fact.

I enjoy capping the base. Do I enjoy standing in a square? No... what I do enjoy is disrupting the enemy team. If this was an MMO you would probably find me playing a Crowd Control class. The easiest way to disrupt the enemy in MWO is to flank them and either shoot them in the back or stand on their base.

If the enemy is spread out I'll happily shoot them in the back. If they are clumped up then it would be suicidal to pop more than one or two shots at them and I'll simply move on to their base. THAT spreads them out so I can face in smaller numbers as can my teammates. It multiples the force I am bringing to bear and is tactical.

If the enemy spreads out a bit and takes the time to actually look around, they will likely spot me and I will hesitate to take them on frontally or go against overlapping fields of fire. I won't sneak past them to go to their base but will rejoin my team and use the cover of the bigger mechs to harass the enemy.

If you remove the bases there is little to no reason for a team to split up and/or move from a tactical position once in it. "Clump up, when you see an enemy everyone shoot it." become the majority tactic which is even less than what there is currently.

The questions I have are, if you step on their base and they don't break up their clump, what will you do? Will you just cap it out and say screw it, or try to defeat them even though they're clumped in a way you don't like? If your own team can clump, why is it such a problem? Is it more tactically interesting to you to base cap them than it is to try to pick apart their strategy?


I'm pretty sure you can defeat most non-eight-man-premade clumps by ambushing with 2 lances from 2 directions - preferably front and back, but a flank will do. If it's an eight man premade they may have the presence of mind to either push hard on one lance or return fire on both lances while moving to a better position - but isn't that kind of exciting? I'd say that's more interesting than capping out their base just because you can.

[Lege]

The only reason to win by base cap is if someone doesn't want to die and they go hide and shutdown. If your down 4 mechs going to base cap is logical. Buzzing the enemy base to get people distracted is a good tactic. Scouts have a purpose and that is to see people coming before they are on cap. Running to the middle of the map and standing behind a wall for 5 minutes may not be the best way to play, but I see people do it every match.

[Mercules]

Atheus, on 08 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

The questions I have are, if you step on their base and they don't break up their clump, what will you do? Will you just cap it out and say screw it, or try to defeat them even though they're clumped in a way you don't like? If your own team can clump, why is it such a problem? Is it more tactically interesting to you to base cap them than it is to try to pick apart their strategy?

Of course I will let the base cap finish if they decide to lose. Yes, they made the decision to not respond. Because of that they are likely using my absence to beat down my teammates. Like I said though, I tend to prefer to use back shots to disrupt and I have stepped off the cap to return to the fray after taking it most of the way down. I have no issue causing you to lose if you refuse to respond to the most important objective of the game.

Atheus, on 08 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure you can defeat most non-eight-man-premade clumps by ambushing with 2 lances from 2 directions - preferably front and back, but a flank will do. If it's an eight man premade they may have the presence of mind to either push hard on one lance or return fire on both lances while moving to a better position - but isn't that kind of exciting? I'd say that's more interesting than capping out their base just because you can.

I'm pretty sure I can too... if I had the communication tools to ambush them with 2 lances from 2 directions. Since I lack the communication tools to even properly inform my team as to the enemy route much less where we should be and how we should advance while PUGging I will settle for making myself a pain in the enemy's butt.

Edited by Mercules, 08 May 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Oppresor]

This one is easy for me. I, personally don't like the idea of TDM, however I know a lot of the user base do; therefore I voted Yes for a non-base mode.

I'm not so worried about the Assault mode issue, because I sometimes get to do the Capping if I am running with my Recon Spider.

[Aaron45]

Marj, on 07 May 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

Without bases that light can spend the whole match sniping assaults with an erppc. You really think an assault is going to win against that? Not having bases makes light MORE useful, not less, because they have the time to wear down large targets from range.

Not having bases opens up options that simply aren't possible when the entire enemy team can just ignore you and cap. If you think TDM would devolve into a slugfest then you're not thinking.

^^ This-

[Aaron45]

Shatterpoint, on 08 May 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Just throw in a DM or TDM mode and see how it goes, there's a filter for the types of match so if you want bases pick a type with bases, if you just wanna go blow up mechs pick DM/TDM.

^^and this

[OneEyed Jack]

You can't have a mode without a way to win that doesn't require killing every enemy. It opens the door to too much troll griefing.

You can't argue with someone like a certain poster above, desperately defending the incredibly poor base-cap mechanic, who will never accept any suggestion that would lessen his ability to win without using any actual skill beyond running and standing still. It's the same mentality as people that use cheat codes on single-player games, hacks on multi-player (not saying he does, but the mentality is the same), and always have to one-up any story anyone tells. People like that don't want to actually play a game, they just have a pathetic desire to be able to say they won.

[3Xtr3m3]

voted yes for matches without bases because I still want a....

NASCAR


mode,
No bases, only race pits.

[Aaron45]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 May 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You can't have a mode without a way to win that doesn't require killing every enemy. It opens the door to too much troll griefing.

You can't argue with someone like a certain poster above, desperately defending the incredibly poor base-cap mechanic, who will never accept any suggestion that would lessen his ability to win without using any actual skill beyond running and standing still. It's the same mentality as people that use cheat codes on single-player games, hacks on multi-player (not saying he does, but the mentality is the same), and always have to one-up any story anyone tells. People like that don't want to actually play a game, they just have a pathetic desire to be able to say they won.

this aswell

[Ihasa]

3Xtr3m3, on 08 May 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

voted yes for matches without bases because I still want a....

NASCAR


mode,
No bases, only race pits.

ROFL

[Mercules]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 May 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You can't have a mode without a way to win that doesn't require killing every enemy. It opens the door to too much troll griefing.

You can't argue with someone like a certain poster above, desperately defending the incredibly poor base-cap mechanic, who will never accept any suggestion that would lessen his ability to win without using any actual skill beyond running and standing still. It's the same mentality as people that use cheat codes on single-player games, hacks on multi-player (not saying he does, but the mentality is the same), and always have to one-up any story anyone tells. People like that don't want to actually play a game, they just have a pathetic desire to be able to say they won.

The "lack of skill" you mentioned is on the person who can't seem to figure out how easy it is to stop a basecap. Ignoring a main object would be "don't want to actually play a game". Weird sort of projection you have going on there.

I play Assualt with all the objectives in mind, including my opponent's objectives which is to capture my base and/or destroy me. When it comes down to that it behooves me stop him and keep the option of moving to his base in mind. Doing otherwise is just doing myself and my opponent a disservice.

[Keifomofutu]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 May 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You can't have a mode without a way to win that doesn't require killing every enemy. It opens the door to too much troll griefing.

You can't argue with someone like a certain poster above, desperately defending the incredibly poor base-cap mechanic, who will never accept any suggestion that would lessen his ability to win without using any actual skill beyond running and standing still. It's the same mentality as people that use cheat codes on single-player games, hacks on multi-player (not saying he does, but the mentality is the same), and always have to one-up any story anyone tells. People like that don't want to actually play a game, they just have a pathetic desire to be able to say they won.

Best idea is still King of the Hill. You can still cap, but unlike the other mode you have to run into the fight instead of away from it to pull it off. Solves the "camping light" scenario quite nicely.

[Mercules]

Keifomofutu, on 09 May 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Best idea is still King of the Hill. You can still cap, but unlike the other mode you have to run into the fight instead of away from it to pull it off. Solves the "camping light" scenario quite nicely.

Yeah, but that just leads to.
"I think I'll play my fast mech today."
"Oh, so your AS7-RS with the 360 engine?"
"No, no... My STK-5S it goes a kph faster."

[hammerreborn]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 May 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You can't have a mode without a way to win that doesn't require killing every enemy. It opens the door to too much troll griefing.

You can't argue with someone like a certain poster above, desperately defending the incredibly poor base-cap mechanic, who will never accept any suggestion that would lessen his ability to win without using any actual skill beyond running and standing still. It's the same mentality as people that use cheat codes on single-player games, hacks on multi-player (not saying he does, but the mentality is the same), and always have to one-up any story anyone tells. People like that don't want to actually play a game, they just have a pathetic desire to be able to say they won.

You sir just won the award for most ******** anti-capping post ever made on this forum. Pat yourself on the back, you done good.

No skill beyond running and standing still. Hey look, I always said poptarts have no skill! This guy clearly agrees!

People who beat me are just like hackers and cheaters for completing the objective. Like those ******** who capture the flag, those guys are all cheaters. I didn't come in here to capture a flag, I came to herp while I derp and derp while I herp!

Edited by hammerreborn, 09 May 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Mercules]

ForestGnome, on 09 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, defend your base, and have your whole team call you a f@gg*t, and start tk'ing you for not helping in the fight?

That's the problem. Base caps are lose lose. If you actually DO sit and defend like all of you whiteknights like to so ignorantly suggest, you just get **** ON by your whole team. you can't "just defend" you arrogant ***.

Here, I'll say it clearly....


DEFENDING YOUR BASE DOES NOT MEAN SITTING ON IT....

Really... it's not a binary choice of "Sit here." or "Move out and never consider the base again."

As I have stated in nearly every Base Cap thread... You leave the base looking for flankers. You check the possible routes in. While fighting you don't get tunnel vision and watch for flankers. If need be you hold up the team's advance for a minute while you all hang back and let the early cappers run right to you. Main group goes... where ever... but someone goes and checks the other routes visually and then circles back. Best be a bit more than slow. Don't over extend. Base defended.

[Mercules]

ForestGnome, on 09 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you actually DO sit and defend

ForestGnome, on 09 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Did i ever say i was sitting on it? No.

Yeah, you actually did say that. I highlighted and underlined the word for you.

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 09 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yeah, you actually did say that. I highlighted and underlined the word for you.

Well, he could be the TKer calling the person sitting at the base names, technically. I wouldn't put it past him with that rage post.

Also, lol mods remove my post but not his which has flagrant CoC violations. Love it.