105 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

MaddMaxx, on 07 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Everyone seems to have totally missed the point. Without ECM as it is/was, the other "List" would have no place or valid use at all.

Everyone always gripes about the need for in game choice. Well, here is a perfect example of having ample choices to counter ECM and yet, Nooooo! It is bad to have choice. Folks need to make up their minds ffs and give up this constant whining about "everything".

if there's a counter to something built into every single item in the game, you're doing something wrong.

[Plavis]

all this changes gonna make mah LRM kitty happy

Edited by Plavis, 07 May 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[General Taskeen]

MaddMaxx, on 07 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Everyone seems to have totally missed the point. Without ECM as it is/was, the other "List" would have no place or valid use at all.

Everyone always gripes about the need for in game choice. Well, here is a perfect example of having ample choices to counter ECM and yet, Nooooo! It is bad to have choice. Folks need to make up their minds ffs and give up this constant whining about "everything".

I think you forgot that massive amount of think tanking people made, me, Docbach, Livewyr, and MANY MORE to make these items better balanced (from their original TT incarnation) and enhance the 'information' part of the so called 'information warfare.' There were countless threads ignored by those such as yourself and the Devs, with high quality suggestions.

Your claim that the "other" list, I assume you mean the original intent of ECM, would have no valid use is unfounded.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 May 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vassago Rain, on 07 May 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

if there's a counter to something built into every single item in the game, you're doing something wrong.

Nice to see you around.

He's a troll. I wouldn't bother responding.

Of all the things I listed as needing to be TT, he tries to come at me about AMS, instead of ECM.

LOVE IT.

[Ngamok]

Roland, on 06 May 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

It actually helps LRM mechs pretty hugely, since it means that an ECM mech can't shut you down merely by being close to you.

But not at range when the Atlas is hiding around a corner with ECM covering his group.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ngamok, on 07 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

But not at range when the Atlas is hiding around a corner with ECM covering his group.

This is a problem for sure. And one I think a lot of the "LRM's are fine" and "ECM is fine" and "Poptarts are fine" groups ignore.

You stick a 7 man poptart/PPC group behind a ridge with a single ECM mech and you've killed any way to target, or lock onto them.

[MaddMaxx]

General Taskeen, on 07 May 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I think you forgot that massive amount of think tanking people made, me, Docbach, Livewyr, and MANY MORE to make these items better balanced (from their original TT incarnation) and enhance the 'information' part of the so called 'information warfare.' There were countless threads ignored by those such as yourself and the Devs, with high quality suggestions.

Your claim that the "other" list, I assume you mean the original intent of ECM, would have no valid use is unfounded.

Well then I apologize profusely. The Dev should have hired that Team and all would be OKeedokeee. Seem pretty full of yourself doesn't it. Your ideas are no more valid than anyone's else, your saying they were the best just makes you look immature.

But keep telling yourself that cause some day you may get a shot at Developing your own game and the players who follow it will know better than you and you will know it to be true and will be forced to follow their every whim.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 May 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Nice to see you around.

He's a troll. I wouldn't bother responding.

Of all the things I listed as needing to be TT, he tries to come at me about AMS, instead of ECM.

LOVE IT.

And you are self important ******. There, does that make us even? A your way or the highway attitude is not a premise to use to build a game.

So the MWO AMS is correct as is? That is what your trying not to say. Thought so.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 07 May 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[DocBach]

I can't take credit for any of my ideas - the people who made Battletech made all of them, I've just vocalized why are we changing the system to one that makes no sense at all.

Everything ECM existed to counter now counters it. Why is it even electronic counter measures if electronics countermeasure it?

[Noesis]

DocBach, on 07 May 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

I can't take credit for any of my ideas - the people who made Battletech made all of them, I've just vocalized why are we changing the system to one that makes no sense at all.

Everything ECM existed to counter now counters it. Why is it even electronic counter measures if electronics countermeasure it?

Never heard the term ECCM?

[DocBach]

We have ECCM inside the ECM with counter mode. You don't see it as silly how instead of changing ECM's function in game they've changed every single electronic it countermeasures into electronic countermeasure countermeasures?

Edited by DocBach, 07 May 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[DocBach]

MaddMaxx, on 07 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Everyone seems to have totally missed the point. Without ECM as it is/was, the other "List" would have no place or valid use at all.

Everyone always gripes about the need for in game choice. Well, here is a perfect example of having ample choices to counter ECM and yet, Nooooo! It is bad to have choice. Folks need to make up their minds ffs and give up this constant whining about "everything".

Now you are forced in to taking certain gear and equipments, some of which solely to counter singular equipment...

Beagle and ECM a perfect example, look at all ECM does for 1.5 tons. Beagle's only really useful feature is it turns off ECM. If there is no ECM, Beagle is largely wasted tonnage (wow, a couple hundred extra meters of sensors and faster target information!), if ECM is present without Beagle it can provide entire team radar immunity and protection from an entire class of weapons in the game.

Instead of just wrangling a 1.5 ton module back a bit we've instead made it the focal point of the fabled information warfare - there is no information warfare beyond "stuff that turns ECM off." Its a crap mechanic, and could have been done way better if they just made a little bit of balance tweaks to ECM and gave the other IW components boosts to actually gain information.

The only way to actually gain more awareness on the battlefield is now with the consumables, which is a major problem. If you want to have more battlefield awareness of the battlespace, you need to pay either in game tax or real money to do so, because the equipment that should be doing it is now just turning ECM off.

[Lightfoot]

No biggy. All my missile configs already carry BAP and if you don't have missiles you don't need BAP. When will LRMs work again is more of a factor, because that will give missile scouts a mission.

[General Taskeen]

MaddMaxx, on 07 May 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Well then I apologize profusely. The Dev should have hired that Team and all would be OKeedokeee. Seem pretty full of yourself doesn't it. Your ideas are no more valid than anyone's else, your saying they were the best just makes you look immature.

Battle Tech thought of it first. I see what you're doing, and you're just trolling.

[Doomstryke]

I skipped a few pages but to me this is a good thing (not that i ever worried about ecm)

Doesn't this just mean lights will be more forced to play as scouts with tag and narc and all that stuff. ECM will still work perfectly fine for them when they are alone. It will only cause them problems if they get to close to other mechs. Being that they were always supposed to be scouts doesn't that make sense?

ECM will help people get into locations for brawling and once people start getting up front and personal and ecm starts getting cancelled out thats when LRMS will come flying.

Means lights will get to scout and tag you from far away. If they get caught by other lights streak war and lrms will rain down and they need to run like hell. LRMS will be useful to kill the light mech out of place and allow proper support once the brawls start. To me that sounds like fun and I might even run LRMS

Could be wrong I'm sure someone will point it out

[Tombstoner]

DocBach, on 07 May 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

The only way to actually gain more awareness on the battlefield is now with the consumables, which is a major problem. If you want to have more battlefield awareness of the battlespace, you need to pay either in game tax or real money to do so, because the equipment that should be doing it is now just turning ECM off.

I think this is exactly why ecm was so powerful.... to get players to buy and use consumables...... To conjecture, other issues like net code and bugs, bugs and more bugs ate into the development cycle and forced PGI to do something other than implement consumables to counter ECM.

[Congzilla]

Only lasting 15 seconds still makes it completely useless and not worth equipping for the weight and slots it takes up.

[verybad]

Very much interested in the NARC buff, though i still think it's a bit too low. Missile scouting is one of the most fun jobs in the game IMO however, and I've got a Jenner that wan'ts to play more.

Really think it should be more on the line of 30 seconds/location where the NARC is on destroyed before it falls off.

BAP/NARC/TAG fit on that Jenner along with one SSRM2 and 3 ML.

[dario03]

Doomstryke, on 07 May 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I skipped a few pages but to me this is a good thing (not that i ever worried about ecm)

Doesn't this just mean lights will be more forced to play as scouts with tag and narc and all that stuff. ECM will still work perfectly fine for them when they are alone. It will only cause them problems if they get to close to other mechs. Being that they were always supposed to be scouts doesn't that make sense?

ECM will help people get into locations for brawling and once people start getting up front and personal and ecm starts getting cancelled out thats when LRMS will come flying.

Means lights will get to scout and tag you from far away. If they get caught by other lights streak war and lrms will rain down and they need to run like hell. LRMS will be useful to kill the light mech out of place and allow proper support once the brawls start. To me that sounds like fun and I might even run LRMS

Could be wrong I'm sure someone will point it out

Why is that a good thing? Like you said lights can already scout and tag already counters ecm so the bap buff doesn't really change that. All it does is make that and capping be about the only thing they can do. How many people do you think want to play that role? Lets see, I can run a big mech with tons of guns and armor and get into brawls or snipe or shoot missles and make things explode while getting a bunch of cbills orrrr I can run this little mech that lets me paint a target for as long as I can live which probably won't be long because I'll die as soon as a enemy gets near me and get the lowest score on the team. Sure theres some people that will especially in 8v8 because some will do it even if its just to help the team but most people want to fight or at least have a decent chance at fights. Lights already have the lowest armor and firepower so we shouldn't need a weapon that negates their one benefit in close up fights.

Edited by dario03, 07 May 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Helvetica]

ECM will be the new LRM messy balance and end up needing a rework. LRMs have about 5/6 counters and ECM will be the same. Despite all the problems with the intial launch of ECM i actually enjoy playing against them (i'm a cat LRM fanboy). Lesson 1 to ECM atlas is i can dumb fire my LRMs, i've become reasonable good at predicting paths so i don't need locks. ECMs forced me to get more skillful.

I still want knockdown back in to stop derping scouts and still allow skilled ones the ability to gimp me,

Now i actually run with a BAP already just because i like it.... and i really don't want it to short out ECMs either because the low signal warning tips me off better than if it passively blocks,

There should be a simple 3 step dance to skill. Step 1 the Initial (the shot or move ) reasonable to to Step 2 Moderate skillful answer to step 1 Step 3 high skill level work around for step 2.

and honestly 150m range for disrupt? give me a break, no one will even notice it.

[Doomstryke]

Well the Majority of lights I see are alwasy to scared to fight. Can't tell you how many matches a see a light turn and run after the first shot without even fighting back and finishing with 0-50 or less damage. I would think they really should strip all weapons and go faster because it seems silly.

Joking aside lots of people like the scout role just like lots like playing missles only support. This just sorta forces comon sense on the lights. I think its good its good because I bet that over half the people that play lights is because of the ecm shield and lag shield. when that is gone i think those people will play the proper mech which would be a medium instead of a light. Lights were never ment to be front line brawlers. You want to play a light play it properly as a scout or backup brawler IE wait for the big mechs as you put it to start fighting then jump in the brawl to help. 1 heavy or assault mech should alwasy be able to brutaly destroy a light. Only problem is that people got used to being near imuned to damage. Now thats not possible so this should help solidify that.

I still think its good to force rolle warfare though it needs work. I know people say all mechs should do anything but that isn't the case. Its just like MMOS where a healer wants to be top damage dealer and expects to go toe to toe with a damage dealer. To me its the same thing