86 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Syllogy, on 08 May 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Increased cap rewards are a negative because it would discourage fighting.

Or make people defend their caps. Which is, you know, fighting.

[Prezimonto]

In light of the Ask the Dev's 43 response to adding new rewards for medium and light mechs I'm performing some thread necromancy.

*MWHAHAHAHA*
It's ALIEEVE!!!!

A simple/quick buff that I was thinking they could implement (though I much prefer more robust answers) is to double the current spotting rewards for tag/narc/spotting in light/medium mechs.

Also... Feel free to add thoughts about medium and/or light mechs.

Edited by Prezimonto, 29 July 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[stjobe]

Something that's been ticking me off for the longest time is capping rewards in Conquest matches; if you win you get 50 XP no matter if you've spent 1 second capping or the whole match. You also get 50 CB per point your team captured (which is 37,500 CB max). If you lose you get no XP at all. Nada, zilch, zero.

I mean, come on. Capping is a major objective in Conquest, and the payout is 50XP? If you win only?

Make the cap assist XP reward dependent on points captured just like the CB reward, perhaps 0,5 to 1 XP per point you've captured?

[Prezimonto]

That would be great. Go Spider 5V, my highest win percentage/lowest K:D percentage mech.... because it's built for conquest point capture. Too bad it took for ever and a day to elite, because light rewards are terrible for a mech with 2 medium lasers.

[stjobe]

Prezimonto, on 29 July 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

That would be great. Go Spider 5V, my highest win percentage/lowest K:D percentage mech.... because it's built for conquest point capture. Too bad it took for ever and a day to elite, because light rewards are terrible for a mech with 2 medium lasers.

I ran mine with a TAG and a single ML. Forever and a day seems about right.

[Daneiel]

One thing not all light mech supposed to be scouts - Jenner and Commando for example - they can do scout jobs , but their main purpose is to be strikers , same goes for the mediums you can not put in the same basket Hunchback and Cicada -> one is pure scout - the other one is much more fearsome then most of the assaults in IS , so reward for scouting is not good way to boost lights and mediums .

Edited by daneiel varna, 29 July 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Prezimonto]

Well then...
other suggestions?

Certainly, a lot of this could also be done via extensive "quirks" on each mech/variant.... but as the Dev's noted in ATD43, damage/kills heavily favors Heavy and Assault mechs. So what rewards generally favor more mobile mechs?

[Daneiel]

Prezimonto, on 29 July 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Well then...
other suggestions?

Certainly, a lot of this could also be done via extensive "quirks" on each mech/variant.... but as the Dev's noted in ATD43, damage/kills heavily favors Heavy and Assault mechs. So what rewards generally favor more mobile mechs?

The "quirks" will not help enough (to not say "not at all") - with removing the RnR and that freedom of customization many of the chassis are dead and that is mostly felt at the mediums - they are cheep enough and have enough firepower to do their jobs , but no repair and rearm , changing the mech specification in that insane way and huge alpha strike system killed them .

[Prezimonto]

You say that, but to make a mech viable (maybe not great) all you need is a decent way to reward it for doing thing's it's good at. Take the Spider 5V: terrible at dishing out damage as a skirmisher compared to dedicated skirmishers. But if it had a quirk that tripled it's Tag rewards and another that tripled the rewards for cap points earned (time on caps, points earned from caps taken, ect. ect. ect.), bonus to UAV use perhaps...

Quirks like that would put the mech into a really solid place as a scout, able to perform a role, beneficial to a team winning, especially in 12v12 (if you play any during the public test's you missed out), and in general give it the bonus it needs to be competitive rewards and XP wise to a mech designed to deal damage.

Or look at a Centurion: suppose the Cent could earn rewards for damage taken... nothing zombies better than a cent and I've seen 11% health cents still limping around the field.

Or give the commando a quirk that doubles rewards for damage done to rear facings, if people think it's such a good skirmisher.

There's ways to add rewards (even via quirks if need be) to give mechs more defined roles. They don't need to be the best ever, they need to viable, and not painful to play.

Now there are going to be people who cry out that this doesn't nothing to make them better. Perhaps not when factored against high level competitive play. But at those cut throat levels considerations like "fun", "viable", or even "rewards" mean nothing compared to the goal of winning. What I'm talking about here is fixing a basic problem with 25 to 30% of the mech(easily) in the game.. .which is that they are deficient at every level compared to large mechs due to lack of significant in game rewards for anything other than kills and damage done... which small mechs are mostly just worse at than bigger mechs.

[Daneiel]

You don't get it ???? - Role warefare is death with its creation - > small maps -> dead scouting -> spider is a scout mech without scout role it must do skirmish role -> not enough weapons to be in that role !!!!!
Centurion ( one of my favorite mech in Battletech universe ) - > dead as a brawer -> lack of armor -> pinpoint accuracy , alpha strikers , too much customization !!!!!
Hunchback -> juggernaut -> dead for that role -> too much customization take his unicnes to be one of the few mechs at that time with AC/20 , pinpoint accuracy , alpha strikers !!!!! - the only viable variant is 4SP but again check the centurion !!!!!
Money quirks -> no repair , no rearm -> pointless you can gain more money and xp if you live enough to do more damge or kills with heavy or assault mech !!!!

Am i need to continue ?

Edited by daneiel varna, 29 July 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Lugh]

Give me knockdowns so all you "Elite" light pilots can STOP HUMPING MY CROTCH and I can shoot you in the face after you fall down at my feet and we'll call it all good k?

[Prezimonto]

You don't get it either. I agree with you. There ARE other problems, we gripe about them constantly, this thread, right now, is brought back to specifically address something the devs have stated they ARE going to do.

So instead of saying this is pointless over and over, how's about we sit down and come up with suggestions that don't suck?

BTW... Knockdowns rock!

[Daneiel]

Simple - R&R must come back , but its need some tweaks - no 75% ammo and repair from PGI side , rebalancing ammo costs and weapon repairs - even better if they can bring level of damaging of the weapons (can be repaired or must be bought new one ) - that can work pefectly with CW - reducing the cost of specific ammo and weapons for the different houses , you will not see so much insane builds and light and mediums will be back on the front line as prime mechs (cost efficient ) - you can not drop in match if your mech is not 100% repaired !!!!
About role warefare - its difficult - there need to be much warger maps for every single role to has place , with these maps where you can fire with most of the weapons at 1/3 to 1/2 of the map - that part of the game is totaly dead !!!

Also there is need some charge for every time you change something in your mech - the battlemechs are not easy for customization .

Edited by daneiel varna, 29 July 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Essentially you ignored the whole point which is attempting to be realistic about the developers goals.
Please stay on topic.

That being said RnR isn't coming back. They said that repeatedly. If you want to get into the discussion about what sorts of issues will help along those lines please contribute to the OTHER thread in my signature. I have an entire discussion thread dedicated to those issues going as well.

[Daneiel]

Yes the RnR is not comming back , nighter customization restrictions , neither role warefare - the mechs lost their personality - > they are empty hulks with large number hardpoints - the game started to slip away from battletech a litle before closed beta ended and your sugestion can not help the lights (they don't need too much help at that point ) and the mediums (they are almost extinct ). Rewarding the scouting at that point will lead only to one thing - suicidal run toward the enemy lines to take the bonus before the others .The whole capping system is broken as idea , its even missing a tool to reset the cap.That poll do not help with anything exept masking the curent problems and if its implemented in the game it will have very short live as boost the light class , as i said before the solution must be a bit more complicated . If PGI really whant to cure the game they need to gain their courage and try to redesign the core of the game , but that will never happend and that leads to the whole big " POINTLESS".

I am sorry for that text wall and some of my gramatic errors (the english is not my first language) , but you will see my point.

Edited by daneiel varna, 29 July 2013 - 07:41 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Daneiel: check out this thread, I think you'll like it.
http://mwomercs.com/...based-gameplay/

[Daneiel]

The objective gameplay is something the game desperately ( yes i realy like it ) need , but that will not solve the problem that we discuss here - how to make the game competitive and enjoyable for lights and mediums , still remain the problem that mediums die in one shot and the lights dont even need to mention ( you get the idea what happend with them) . The game need a change and its need it fast -> Homeless Bill has very creative idea how everything can be solve , but it was totaly ignored , the heat penalty hurts more some of the mediums then heavy and assaults , money stimulation is not the solution simply becase you don't have good money-sink . The whole economic simply don't exist - you can make easily 50 milions for one month with only 2 hours game play for a day and that is without premium accaunt . The premium must be main income for PGI not the shop and that is not pay to win scheme , but at that point is pointless . If they try to put some time for thinking on that subject , there will not even need for weight balance matchmaker everything will go on trcks , lights and mediums will be the most common mechs and people who has the skill or guts will play with assaults - the second ones will loose some money from time to time , but the first one will be aways on green , the heavy class will be a bit more friendly then the assaults but still will need to make a proper build , mediums and lights will be aways up with money as should be .Yes there is other ways to achive that but much harder to be properly done and aways has the risk that system can be temporary solution , and people like me who love to play with mediums and lights will be on the second line .

Edited by daneiel varna, 29 July 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Objective based rewards definitely need a bump. Conquest feels pretty good in terms of the flow of the mode but Assault has bad moments. For example, in assault most people know to just play it a TDM until the heavies make it to the cap points. Every once in a while a light or 2 or 3 will just cap right off the bat and it feels like a waste of time and fun. Making the rewards better in assault capping will totally revamp that mode meaning the cap points would need defended. I don't have a problem with the TDM mode but I come from BF series and I love objectives being weighed in the outcome of games.

[LeKrisser]

The Maps need to be like 5 to 10 times bigger in size and the startpoints have to be set random. Then the scouts are really needed.

[Prezimonto]

The problem with 5 to 10x larger maps is that assaults are so slow. I would hate to walk for 10 minutes, fight for 2, then hit reset. Boring.

I agree it would give scouts a role but at the complete expense of fun/role for another class and that's bad balance... but I think they already have a role in a map the size of Alpine or even Tourmaline Desert.