86 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

the cata hitbox is fine. i have 3 pults, they work great. i rarely get headshot.

[Zakie Chan]

What many seem to ignore is a hunchback and centurion have the same size head hitbox as a catapult. Go to training grounds if you don't believe me.

The Cat chassis has 270 deg of torso twist... use it! Keep moving, do not continually pop over ridges in the same place, or run straight at your enemy...

Practice and you will get the hang of it. The ppc/gauss bias makes most headshots lethal in one hit. Most will be lucky hits but there are a portion of pilots who are skilled enough to get them.

The fun part of MWO is its a thinking mans game. You only get one life, so do your best to stay in the fight!

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Poll is biased. There is no option to just "Keep things the same". Period.

[Cubivorre]

Has this thread always had a poll? I don't remember one when I posted. On that note, you should make it unbiased so that not everyone is voting in your favor in some way or another then I might vote.

[Onmyoudo]

Zakie Chan, on 09 May 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

What many seem to ignore is a hunchback and centurion have the same size head hitbox as a catapult. Go to training grounds if you don't believe me.

The HBK and CNA cockpits aren't sat in the middle of their CT. And the HBK's is completely protected from all angles on the right hand side by their massive RT, and the 4SP is mostly protected from both sides. The CNA is pretty easy to headshot too, though.

[Helbourne]

The side windows of the Catapult are the problem. You can score a real easy head hit from 90 degrees to either side. Those side windows should NOT count towards the head. What other mech can you shoot from 90 degrees to either side and still score a head hit, umm I do not know of one.

[Zakie Chan]

You guys should check out training grounds like I said...

You can score a near 90 deg hit on a cent or hunchback. In the hunchback's case the hunch is tall but does not stick out far enough to prevent angled shots. (only extreme angles are blocked)

Front CT profile on a catapult is quite narrow, extending above and below the cockpit. Any shot striking left or right lands on the RT/LT. (Same phenomena as centurion, which extends life of mech by spreading damage)

The Catapult offers many viable builds ranging from LRM, dual Gauss/ac20, 90 alpha srm6 boats, streak boat, lasers, ppcs etc. Furthermore it has the largest torso twist range in the game. The larger than most head hitbox makes for a nice balance point of the chassis, which can easily be compensated for with pilot skill.

Dont forget the hunch and cent are 15 tons lighter, sporting the same sized head hitbox, with less weapons and comparable speeds. Learn to work as hard as a medium pilot and you will die much less often to cockpit strikes.

[Satan n stuff]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 08 May 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

The Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech
Cockpit is designed for maximum visibility when spotting targets. It also sports the best torso twist in the game.

Deal with it.

It also has the advantage of the cockpit not being anywhere near it's torso twist axis, so twisting the torso actually moves the cockpit around quite a bit, making it harder to shoot it.

[Sable Dove]

Yeah, explaining it away as "the Cat is supposed to be long-range, so you shouldn't be getting hit in the head so much" is dumb. Especially when everyone and their mom is using builds that do 35+ pinpoint damage at 800m.

Also, since LRMs are virtually useless currently, this also limits most of the Cats to effective ranges of less than 270m. The K2 is pretty much the only Cat that can actually be effective at long ranges, and even then, most enemies will have the same range, or longer, and will have a head about a quarter the size.

[El Bandito]

Sable Dove, on 10 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yeah, explaining it away as "the Cat is supposed to be long-range, so you shouldn't be getting hit in the head so much" is dumb. Especially when everyone and their mom is using builds that do 35+ pinpoint damage at 800m.

Also, since LRMs are virtually useless currently, this also limits most of the Cats to effective ranges of less than 270m. The K2 is pretty much the only Cat that can actually be effective at long ranges, and even then, most enemies will have the same range, or longer, and will have a head about a quarter the size.

Then save your complaints until May 21. PGI might buff back missiles, and then all we see will be Catapults--according to some people.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 May 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Scratx]

Considering I rarely die of cockpit shots, I fail to see why people still whine about Catapult cockpits.

Are you standing still perchance?

[Xyre]

Cubivorre, on 09 May 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Has this thread always had a poll? I don't remember one when I posted. On that note, you should make it unbiased so that not everyone is voting in your favor in some way or another then I might vote.

I will edit the poll if it makes people happy, I will also add an option for no cockpit hitboxes.

[Tarantoga]

theres no vote option to just change the overly exposed catapult cockpit hitbox so i cant vote, seriously ppl stop making polls if you even dont know how to make them properly so they would actually tell us something (no that pgi bothers to look at polls lol)

[cyberFluke]

Sable Dove, on 10 May 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yeah, explaining it away as "the Cat is supposed to be long-range, so you shouldn't be getting hit in the head so much" is dumb. Especially when everyone and their mom is using builds that do 35+ pinpoint damage at 800m.

Also, since LRMs are virtually useless currently, this also limits most of the Cats to effective ranges of less than 270m. The K2 is pretty much the only Cat that can actually be effective at long ranges, and even then, most enemies will have the same range, or longer, and will have a head about a quarter the size.

Wrong. My CAT-C1(F) is my favourite mech atm.

CPLT-C1 (Heyo!)

Usually highest dmg on team, good velocity for capping. Careful though, as it's not the broken levels of alpha damage of most current builds, it takes a damn sight more skill to use.

While I do agree that head/cockpit sizes should be "standardised", aren't all mech cockpits supposed to be the same size, excepting the Small Cockpit? I only occasionally die to a headshot. Most often I just get cored through the centre front.

What f**ks me off is that the CAT chassis has a lot of places to hit the front CT from behind. I'm sick of being PPC'd or Lasered in the back after turning around to spread the damage and dying to a front CT strike, despite the damage being reported (via the red directional flashes on screen) as behind me.

Edited by cyberFluke, 11 May 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Caustic Canid]

I guess this method of balancing a chassis wouldn't bother me as much if it was implemented on any other mechs. But so far the catapult is the only mech that has been nerfed in this way. If this is how PGI wants to balance overperforming mech chassis, then please increase the head hitboxes on the stalker, highlander, hunchback and raven, since those mechs seem to be the FoTM. (the stalker even LOOKS like a big catapult)

Just because a mech can boat, or have a certain loadout, doesn't mean that it should have a glaring weakness. "Balancing" this way unfairly punishes people who aren't using the cheese builds that so many people are scarred for life over.

Zakie Chan, on 10 May 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

You guys should check out training grounds like I said...

You can score a near 90 deg hit on a cent or hunchback. In the hunchback's case the hunch is tall but does not stick out far enough to prevent angled shots. (only extreme angles are blocked)

Front CT profile on a catapult is quite narrow, extending above and below the cockpit. Any shot striking left or right lands on the RT/LT. (Same phenomena as centurion, which extends life of mech by spreading damage)

The Catapult offers many viable builds ranging from LRM, dual Gauss/ac20, 90 alpha srm6 boats, streak boat, lasers, ppcs etc. Furthermore it has the largest torso twist range in the game. The larger than most head hitbox makes for a nice balance point of the chassis, which can easily be compensated for with pilot skill.

Dont forget the hunch and cent are 15 tons lighter, sporting the same sized head hitbox, with less weapons and comparable speeds. Learn to work as hard as a medium pilot and you will die much less often to cockpit strikes.

Thing is, in order to hit the head on hunchback i have to intentionally aim high. meaning my shot is more likely to miss. The head on a Catapult is -literally- center mass.

Edited by Caustic Canid, 11 May 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Xyre]

Tarantoga, on 11 May 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

theres no vote option to just change the overly exposed catapult cockpit hitbox so i cant vote, seriously ppl stop making polls if you even dont know how to make them properly so they would actually tell us something (no that pgi bothers to look at polls lol)

This is a curiosity poll, it was never meant to be used for balance. Its unfortunate that you do not see any value in it. If you wish to dismiss the insight of how people, who are viewing and active in this thread, generally feel about cockpit hitboxes then that is certainly your prerogative. It can be useful to people who wish to know how others generally feel before they post, it can save people time of saying how they generally feel without having to create a post, and it gives those who are active in the thread something to consider...So that is far from useless to me.

[Xyre]

Caustic Canid, on 11 May 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I guess this method of balancing a chassis wouldn't bother me as much if it was implemented on any other mechs. But so far the catapult is the only mech that has been nerfed in this way. If this is how PGI wants to balance overperforming mech chassis, then please increase the head hitboxes on the stalker, highlander, hunchback and raven, since those mechs seem to be the FoTM. (the stalker even LOOKS like a big catapult)

Just because a mech can boat, or have a certain loadout, doesn't mean that it should have a glaring weakness. "Balancing" this way unfairly punishes people who aren't using the cheese builds that so many people are scarred for life over.



Thing is, in order to hit the head on hunchback i have to intentionally aim high. meaning my shot is more likely to miss. The head on a Catapult is -literally- center mass.

I am just curious has the development team actually said that the Catapult cockpit hitboxes are the way they are in order to balance them? I think its reasonable to assume that is why they are like that, but I am unsure. Also I completely agree that if the cockpit is like that for balancing reasons then it should be changed...it is way to easy to intentionally, much less accidentally kill a Catapult because of the size and location of its cockpit.

Edited by Xyre, 11 May 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[Elizander]

I think that Catapults have been adjusted enough to not warrant the huge head hitbox. I believe that it's time to shrink the hitbox for the Catapult to something more reasonable.

[Kitane]

Xyre, on 11 May 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I am just curious have the development team actually said that the Catapult cockpit hitboxes are the way they are in order to balance them? I think its reasonable to assume that is why they are like that, but I am unsure. Also I completely agree that if the cockpit is like that for balancing reasons then it should be changed...it is way to easy to intentionally, much less accidentally kill a Catapult because of the size and location of its cockpit.

No, last known response is that Bryan (I think) believes that the cockpit has same hitbox size as cockpits on other mechs.

..

[Xyre]

cyberFluke, on 11 May 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Wrong. My CAT-C1(F) is my favourite mech atm.

CPLT-C1 (Heyo!)

Usually highest dmg on team, good velocity for capping. Careful though, as it's not the broken levels of alpha damage of most current builds, it takes a damn sight more skill to use.

While I do agree that head/cockpit sizes should be "standardised", aren't all mech cockpits supposed to be the same size, excepting the Small Cockpit? I only occasionally die to a headshot. Most often I just get cored through the centre front.

What f**ks me off is that the CAT chassis has a lot of places to hit the front CT from behind. I'm sick of being PPC'd or Lasered in the back after turning around to spread the damage and dying to a front CT strike, despite the damage being reported (via the red directional flashes on screen) as behind me.

My two favorite Catapults are the C1 and the K2...I prefer the higher alpha potential of the K2 personally. The C1 has the extra support from a distance or out of LoS of missiles which can be very helpful in many situations to yourself or the team. Depending on the missile buff I think the C1 could become a beast. I agree that the C1 takes more skill to use effectively, mainly because of the missiles.

Kitane, on 11 May 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

No, last known response is that Bryan (I think) believes that the cockpit has same hitbox size as cockpits on other mechs.

..

Sigh...well thats sad, if it is just some weird oversight then it really should be standardized. Thanks for letting me know!