67 replies to this topic

[Adrienne Vorton]

i agree that sometimes JJ´s seem to be useless, especially when see how slow they react in MW4..in many cases you just present youself as a victim for legshots^^...BUT

1st of all, in TT they have been very useful, when ever i had a mech with JJ´s, i often used them, mostly ( if i owned initiative) to jump into someones back and such things. And in TT aswell as in MW computergames, they are great in rough terrain with buildings, hills and all that... like stated, in many cases too slow for a proper "over the mech and down to its back" without losing a leg^^(uuuh, rhymes good, i´ll take it for my next song xD ) ..if used wisely, JJ´s are a very powerful tool...

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 06 June 2012 - 03:05 AM.

[Ratzap]

LordDeathStrike, on 06 June 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

i drive an atlas but i fully support jump capable mechs. nothing is as satisfieing as aiming up at a jumping mech and blowing him to pieces mid air!

MW[x] I presume? If MWO actually implements movement modifiers (ie regardless of your ability to train a cross on a moving target) you're going to be changing that view

[Woodstock]

I think in earlier versions of this game the terrain was rather limited.

With Cryengine 3 we will see much more detail to the maps and this will make JJ far more interesting. All my scout mechs/hunters (Assassin) ... will hopefully mount at least a few JJ's to help move over blocking terrain.

I can imagine them being very useful in cities too ... jumping over and onto city blocks to flank or provide sniping positions. I'm thinking about my Blackjack here.

[LordDeathStrike]

Ratzap, on 06 June 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

MW[x] I presume? If MWO actually implements movement modifiers (ie regardless of your ability to train a cross on a moving target) you're going to be changing that view

mwll, blowing up pop tarts and gunning down bunny hopping battle armors.

in mw2/3/4 the ascent/descent were so slow there was no challenge in shooting them out of the air, in mwll so many people cry about ba being unhittable because they are a horrible marksman.

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 06 June 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[Soviet Alex]

In Battletech, I use jump jets a lot. They can clear terrain which would otherwise slow you down or force a piloting roll, & allow you to get into cover quickly. In MW3 I hardly ever used them. A few maps were easier with jump jets, but that was about it. I didn't play MW4 or MWLL so I haven't experienced "pop-tarting" yet (something to look forward to). Once I start playing MW-O, I'll see if jump jets are worth the tonnage in that game environment.

Here's a thought though: there aren't many jump-capable mechs in MW-O at this moment. Jenner, 1 Raven variant does so that's a maybe, Catapult, possibly Cataphract. No pop-tarting Awesomes & Atlases. In fact, no jumping mediums or assaults, although that may change before launch.

"Q: will jump jets be for all mechs or only for those that have atleast one JJ variant? [NEODYM]

A: Only variants that have jump jets will be capable of using them. This is done to keep variants varied and as unique as possible. [GARTH]" (Ask the Devs 5).

Edited by Soviet Alex, 06 June 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[errorabbit]

I've always felt the main advantage of jump jets in the game was that you could turn freely and, for the most part, ignore terrain.

The tabletop rules with the hex maps and the turning makes it really hard to circle anything, so JJs are a heavensent for getting into someone's back or maneuvering into a shooting position in rough terrain. They give you a lot of mali for shooting too.

To translate that to the game 1:1, it should
a) really rock your window while jetting, as opposed to make you hover like a little feather and give you BETTER aim
act fast... the whole thing should really fire you around (this would also make it harder to hit you in the air, which would be another point: in TT you can't get hit better while jumping, although thinking about it, that is probably unrealistic, unless it really does look like a jump and you can maneuver in the air)
c) be difficult
d) make you turn speed in the air faster than on the ground

However, I think if they do that, it would make JJs overpowered, probably.
Playing the MW games, I mostly put JJs out to get space as well. The maps didn't often have terrain that needed jumping, and the Singleplayer campaigns often had bugs in the mission objectives and your teams AI that would result from taking shortcuts when you COULD pull them off.

In Mechcommander however, Jumpjets were pretty amazing. I heavily disliked having to take a mech on my time that didn't have jumpjets, since it meant you could never take your whole team through shortcuts or make them evade up cliffs and over rivers.

[AtomicArmadillo]

I love my JJs, for me they are a must have.

[SmakMickeY]

It really depends on what I feel like doing when loading up my mech. Mostly, I enjoy the ability to run away like a little girl when someone bigger and scarier runs around the corner. I'm still apart of a small group that wishes we could Goomba stomp mechs. It'd be nice to jump on another plays mech and case damage. The thought amuses me.

[UnLimiTeD]

That's one of the few cases where I think PGI should allow themselves some creative freedom and create new variants; To allow stuff like an Atlas with JJ.^^
Not that I would use that, but the thought is immensely amusing.
Go bowling.

[Bob Random]

Thank you for all the constructive, helpful comments, they have definately increased my opinion of Jump Jets on a mech that I wouldn't have considered before. I may even reconsidered my hastiness when removing them from any future purchased mechs.

I am still concerned that a few of the comments appeared to showcase Jump Jets as an "I Win" button utilising various tactics that appear to be frowned upon. As long as there is no abuse of game mechanics, I can't see why these spefic tactics are dicredited if they are allowed within the game rules but I can understand the reasons they are not embraced by everyone.

[Roland]

One of the chief reasons for their popularity in MW4 was that a number of bugs in the game's code ended up giving a significant advantage to jumping mechs. Netcode would tend to make them appear in different locations on a client machine than they were on the server. Many mechs' jumping animations resulted in the mech rising outside of the mech's hitbox locations, making sections of it invincible.

Lots of folks didn't really realize they were exploiting these bugs, and just thought, "Hey I do a lot better when I take this JJ mech!"

None of this should be an issue in MWO though. The notion of JJ's being awesome stems mainly from the fact that people have exposure to them in bugging environments.

When the netcode and hitboxes are working, JJ's dont' provide nearly the security that many MW4 players became accustomed to. If they try to pull the same stuff in MWO, assuming MW4 is using modern netcode, then those folks will likely die very quickly.

[SideSt3p]

I love Jump Jets for a multitude of reasons. Allow me to share some of them with you!

• Well first check my name Jump Jets provide me the ability to move in unexpected ways/patterns.
  
• Secondly, I like standard engines. This is a TT thing with XL engines being way easier to cause you to be destroyed. So I opt for a standard engine as much as possible, but I choose a slower engine and utilize Jump Jets to gain back SOME of my mobility.
  
• DFA. The Highlander is my boy, and the Highlander Burial is our party piece
  
• Difficult Terrain. With JJ's I can get through that terrain quickly and effeciently.

So those are my main reasons. They are definitely a 'cult' like thing because it seems like people use them all the time or never. Hope this provided some insight as to my attraction to the sexiness of jump jets.

[CG Chicken Kn]

To try and answer the OP's actual question.
It's quite simple. With jump jets I can move in three dimensions. MW3 let you bind keys to jump forward/back/right/left/straight up. Combine creative use of jump jets along with angular movement already in place and now I could turn inside your arc in a circle strafe, continually hitting you while you cannot bring your weapons to bear on me. If you ground pound/blind fire LRMs to knock me down I am hovering (twitching my jump jet button), so I cannot be knocked down. Same goes for incoming UAC 20 fire. If I combine terrain, speed in a circle strafe, and well timed jump jets, I can be in a position to fire straight down at the top of your mech. While you are looking up at me trying to get a shot off. I get to shoot a target with negligible armour (the head). You get to try to hit a target moving in no fixed direction for more than half a second, travelling in three dimensions, at varying rates of speed. If you do manage to hit me, It is more than likely to be a center torso shot, where my armour is the thickest. If I am feeling the love and really keep track of how you move and the surrounding terrain, I will create a situation where you will run in to a hill/tree/building or any inanimate object that will bring you to a dead stop. Making a money shot for me. This was an incredibly valuable skill in MW3 where you had to lag shoot. If I can make you stop moving, I WILL NOT MISS! Not like I missed all that often anyway.
As I understand the way MWO is intended to work, it will be pretty much like C0 in MW3.Ok, more like MW4 with wep types assigned to certain hardpoints. I will not be able to put any component in any mech as long as I have the tonnage/crit spaces for it. This is not a bad thing and I look forward to the challenge of coming up with a build that will rock people's socks. But except for the very start of my game progression where mech choices will be limited, I will most certainly have jump jets in every mech I can possibly have them in.
Remember the golden rule of combat. Movement is Life!

[Kobold]

Jadel Blade, on 06 June 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Im with the OP I never found much use for them either. Apart from messing around with DFA for a laugh.

It is hilarious to me that this guy is also bearing a Steiner logo.

[Furniture]

Thanassis79, on 06 June 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

It is the distance you can put between yourself and the opponent. You can take a long shot at him with LRM's, let him get close, fire with your lasers and jump away to create some distance. Take a long shot at him with LRM's, .... rince and repeat.

That's not exactly how they work. You'll never be able to jump away from a mech that is running flat out at you. We won't know for sure until the game comes out, but in talbetop no mech can jump farther than its walking speed. You'll only be able to do that against something really slow, like an Urbanmech. The value in the jumpjets in this game will probably not be in creating distance, but in putting difficult terrain between you and your opponent to give you breathing space. You can jump away onto a hill that is next to you, taking you out of his crosshairs, while you turn to run on foot, and he has to walk around the hill, or try and climb it to get to you again. That's one example. But using it for pure distance opening probably won't be possible, unless they exagerate jump distances.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Bob Random, on 06 June 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

As the title implies, I would like to understand the obsession that a lot of players have with Jump Jets.

I have played MechWarrior 1-4 and I am an avid FPS player in other games but I am struggling to grasp the focus that is being put on Jump Jets being so powerful.

The first thing I do when I buy a mech is remove the Jump Jets to free up some weight for armor/weapons/heatsinks (i.e. something useful).

Please could someone impart, in a constructive fashion, what I am missing.

Thank you.

Because I can land on you?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jumpjets can:

• get you out of ravines with steep walls
  
• get you on top of buildings
  
• get you up-and-over a rock wall or other obstacle that's in your way
  
• get you on top of a hill that has no footpaths to climb
  
• let you peek over a hill without having to walk up it
  
• let you run straight off a tall cliff and survive the landing (fully intact)
  
• let you DFA

I'm sure there's more...

[fatcat01]

If you want a good in-game example just check out the light 'mech breakdown video in the media section.

[Xantars]

If the trerrain is anything like some of the WoT maps then javing JJ will greatly increase the scout's role to get in spot the enemy and get out again or to jump in use some harassing fore to get him to follow you leaving his back side open for your buddy so pound on

[Kyle Knightraven]

Not likely to be a factor in game, but there is the "I am Jade Falcon" option. In that book, the jump jets on Mechwarrior Johanna's Vulture were used as a weapon to kill Natasha Kerensky. The Vulture was prone one elevation level above the Diashi, pretty much destroyed and seemingly doomed. She stuck out her leg near the head of the Diashi, and fired off the jump jets, burning through the armor and killing the Black Widow herself. That would be funny as hell to see in game....