339 replies to this topic

[AceTimberwolf]

Alright. ill see what i can get. show starts in 15 min. ill be over in 30. Anything else u guys can think of?

[perfectblue]

AceTimberwolf, on 07 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Alright. ill see what i can get. show starts in 15 min. ill be over in 30. Anything else u guys can think of?

I would appreciate it if you could ask them when they plan on implementing the rest of the launch mechs (cicada, raven, awesome etc).

[Easily]

AceTimberwolf, on 07 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Alright. ill see what i can get. show starts in 15 min. ill be over in 30. Anything else u guys can think of?

If you happen to get your hands on one of the testmachines and they're not looking, could you run a traceroute to the gameserver?
I want to know where it's located to figure out my ping to it from Europe. No use buying a founders pack already if beta is unplayable without European servers!

Just don't get your *** in any trouble

[New Breed]

To be honest, if video is allowed to be taken just shoot a bunch.. shaky cam video is better then any info we have gotten already

[Radman]

Frostiken, on 06 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I've said almost nothing about this game. My speculation is based entirely on my experience with past Mech games, particularly MWLL. LRMs in MWLL go through sinewave swings in balance, and the times when LRMs were the most powerful were when the game was at its most unplayable. In early 0.2, Clearcut was an LRM campfest, because people would literally just line up on a hillside, wait for a reticule to turn red, and push a button. That was it. It was the most stale, one-dimensional zero-skill thing ever seen in a video game, and it brought the gameplay to a standstill. Brawling is arguably one of the most fun and skill-intensive things in the game, because it's frantic, dangerous, and brings you face-to-face with your enemy. However, brawling could never happen if you took a hundred missiles to the face before you could close the distance.

The notion that long-range combat is more difficult than close-range combat is something that's been true in almost every game since forever. This is even true in Battletech. At long-range, this was presented in severe penalties to-hit. In Mechwarrior this never seems to be the case. Sniping with gauss and PPCs is almost trivial. In other games, sniping people requires dealing with scope shake, bullet drop, long lead times, and usually has a requirement like a headshot to do the most damage. It's how they limit the effectiveness of extreme-range fighting so it's not totally frustrating, by forcing the application of a modicum of skill. ER lasers are almost a joke at long range, you can laser off anything you want. LRMs barely require you to aim, you just push button, receive bacon.

Long range combat shouldn't be any easier than close-range combat, and so far in every Mechwarrior game that's been true. Nobody likes disproportionate applications of skill, where certain weapons are 'EZ-mode', where undertaking specific playstyles forces you to simply be much better than your opponent to exploit them. Nobody also likes the feeling of helplessness that comes from things like easy-to-use extreme-ranged weaponry that outranges all of their own. Obviously this will have to be true to some extent in Mechwarrior, but like I said earlier: hitting things at long range in tabletop would end up with to-hit percentages in the 30% +- 10% range. You might be able to hit them, but good luck doing it consistently before they can move up.

Speaking purely from the point of view of what's best for players' enjoyment, what's best for game pacing, and what's best for skill ceilings, long-ranged combat in Mechwarrior traditionally betrays all of these, and LRMs are the worst due to just how ridiculously easy they are to use.

I have no objection with LRMs being effective as a matter of principle, but I do have an objection to the impact such weapons could, should, would, and often do have on gameplay. LRM camping is the absolute lowest application of skill you can get in this game, and as such it shouldn't be rewarded. Again, this is something you see in most games. Snipers usually struggle to make points, while the guys who are out there actually doing thing are capturing objectives and being useful.

Do you want to play a game where everyone hides behind rocks, not moving, waiting for someone else to be the first one out to get shot? Trench warfare is boring and leads to long, homogenous, uneventful games, but trench warfare is what happens in Mechwarrior when you make long-ranged weapons too powerful, easier to use, and more rewarding.

Pretty much perfectly said!

[Russolini]

I would like a clairification on the founders package.

Does the founders package offer early access to the game (not Beta) and therefore require us to pick our founders mech right away or is it Beta access thereby allowing us to play before choosing our founders mech?

I've read lots of stuff on the forums and can't figure it out.

[Solis Obscuri]

Just play some different 'mechs today and let us know how they feel!

[Kobold]

Russolini, on 07 June 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Does the founders package offer early access to the game (not Beta) and therefore require us to pick our founders mech right away or is it Beta access thereby allowing us to play before choosing our founders mech?

The Operation: Inception post specifically says "beta access". In any case, given that they are in closed beta still, probably without even all the features implemented, there is no way they'd be ready for an early access to a launch version by mid July (unless I am wildly incorrect about my assumptions of the level of development of the product).

[BlackMoore]

Frostiken, on 06 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I've said almost nothing about this game. My speculation is based entirely on my experience with past Mech games, particularly MWLL. LRMs in MWLL go through sinewave swings in balance, and the times when LRMs were the most powerful were when the game was at its most unplayable. In early 0.2, Clearcut was an LRM campfest, because people would literally just line up on a hillside, wait for a reticule to turn red, and push a button. That was it. It was the most stale, one-dimensional zero-skill thing ever seen in a video game, and it brought the gameplay to a standstill. Brawling is arguably one of the most fun and skill-intensive things in the game, because it's frantic, dangerous, and brings you face-to-face with your enemy. However, brawling could never happen if you took a hundred missiles to the face before you could close the distance.

The notion that long-range combat is more difficult than close-range combat is something that's been true in almost every game since forever. This is even true in Battletech. At long-range, this was presented in severe penalties to-hit. In Mechwarrior this never seems to be the case. Sniping with gauss and PPCs is almost trivial. In other games, sniping people requires dealing with scope shake, bullet drop, long lead times, and usually has a requirement like a headshot to do the most damage. It's how they limit the effectiveness of extreme-range fighting so it's not totally frustrating, by forcing the application of a modicum of skill. ER lasers are almost a joke at long range, you can laser off anything you want. LRMs barely require you to aim, you just push button, receive bacon.

Long range combat shouldn't be any easier than close-range combat, and so far in every Mechwarrior game that's been true. Nobody likes disproportionate applications of skill, where certain weapons are 'EZ-mode', where undertaking specific playstyles forces you to simply be much better than your opponent to exploit them. Nobody also likes the feeling of helplessness that comes from things like easy-to-use extreme-ranged weaponry that outranges all of their own. Obviously this will have to be true to some extent in Mechwarrior, but like I said earlier: hitting things at long range in tabletop would end up with to-hit percentages in the 30% +- 10% range. You might be able to hit them, but good luck doing it consistently before they can move up.

Speaking purely from the point of view of what's best for players' enjoyment, what's best for game pacing, and what's best for skill ceilings, long-ranged combat in Mechwarrior traditionally betrays all of these, and LRMs are the worst due to just how ridiculously easy they are to use.

I have no objection with LRMs being effective as a matter of principle, but I do have an objection to the impact such weapons could, should, would, and often do have on gameplay. LRM camping is the absolute lowest application of skill you can get in this game, and as such it shouldn't be rewarded. Again, this is something you see in most games. Snipers usually struggle to make points, while the guys who are out there actually doing thing are capturing objectives and being useful.

Do you want to play a game where everyone hides behind rocks, not moving, waiting for someone else to be the first one out to get shot? Trench warfare is boring and leads to long, homogenous, uneventful games, but trench warfare is what happens in Mechwarrior when you make long-ranged weapons too powerful, easier to use, and more rewarding.

Aye! And when I post and hope, it is from the experience of playing MPBT: Solaris and 3025. I have played the MW games but since this is an online game, I use MPBT as my reference. And until I play MWO, that's all I have to go on. LRM's worked, but we still had to get up close to use our other weapons. I am still optimistic and was hoping to get more mechanics from them at e3

Edited by BlackMoore, 07 June 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Kasiagora]

AceTimberwolf, on 07 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Alright. ill see what i can get. show starts in 15 min. ill be over in 30. Anything else u guys can think of?

If it's not too late, I was wondering if you could ask the guys about zooming on your targeting reticule like you could in MW3 so that using AC/2s might be more effective at extended ranges. It's just an AC/2 so I doubt it would be a concern for sniping, but a Jenner with one on it would keep people at distance and it gets 45 rounds of ammo per ton!
I think it had been mentioned once as a pilot upgrade or something, but that was months ago and have been wondering about it and other skills such as torso twist speed, degrees, and weapon convergence times reduced with pilot skills. I guess an umbrella question would be if they're planning on implementing any of that by the time open beta comes out, and if skills are on your pilot applied to all of his mechs, or if it's per mech so a Jenner pilot would feel out of his depth when first getting into a Cataphract.

Edit: I guess a mech like the Hollander would really be great for working in conjunction with the Catapult. It has the speed to get up there and spot targets, and can put a couple of rounds of Gauss Rifle into the torso for the Cat to exploit with that spread damage.

Edited by Kasiagora, 07 June 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Urulf]

reticule zoom is in their plans somewhere ahead in the future. Dont remember exactly where i read that tho, but afaik it was a dev post about it.

[Woodstock]

AceTimberwolf, on 06 June 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

The whole ac5 thing . Just from the few matches I played I felt just SLIGHTLY underpowered.

I dont think it was under powered ... its only an AC 5 ... the same damage as a medium laser

Half that of a PPC ...

The AC5 is a light gun really.

I found your report not at all scary ... Everything sounded excellent in fact!

I especially liked how the aiming was not just point click boom ... you have to think and that says the game will require skill.

Really happy you posted.

I'd be interested in more info on the aiming mechanics.

And your assessment on how fluid the OTHER mechs appear to move. Do they feel connected to the ground or do they skim over it? how about interaction with the water ... do you slow down... leave wakes etc

Urulf, on 07 June 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

reticule zoom is in their plans somewhere ahead in the future. Dont remember exactly where i read that tho, but afaik it was a dev post about it.

I think zoom is part of the role skills ... which from what was said in one of the interviews has not been worked in yet.

[AceTimberwolf]

LRM effective range 300-560 for max impact. I was playing wrong.

[AceTimberwolf]

Don't brawl with dragon. Quick response Mech. Dragon iS fine

[geck0 icaza]

One thing to point out in light of this new information. (explanation for non TT players) 10 seconds is supposed to be every given turn. So a lot of the damage/armor calculations (I believe) are based around this. So the devs decided weapons have double ammo, and mechs have double armor (likely to draw out fights). But did anyone else notice the fire rate for the weapons are higher than 1 shot per 10 seconds? I'd have to look through them all again but I believe every weapon shown save for maybe the AC20 can easily fire twice in 10 seconds. That being said, you can fire two LRM 15's at a mech in the TT and likely miss one completely. From what I have seen its not hard to hit LRMs, so if landing both equals to the (adjusted) damage for one it evens out I think. Since you can basically fire 2 salvos in the time it would normally take to fire 1

Just thought I would point out the fire rate thing. (the rest is me rambling)

[Woodstock]

AceTimberwolf, on 07 June 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Don't brawl with dragon. Quick response Mech. Dragon iS fine

So the dragon play style is to shoot from the flanks ... then close for finishes?

Sounds similar to how I wanna play the Centurion

[Roland]

Can you play around in the mech lab?
Any additional info about how it works?
Can you build any crazy configs?

[AceTimberwolf]

Destroyed a component 15xp

[AceTimberwolf]

Destroy Mech 50xp

[FactorlanP]

No XP for damaging though? Or is it factored into an end of match bonus in some way? How does a Light score XP in a fight?

Edited by FactorlanP, 07 June 2012 - 11:24 AM.