38 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

I have asked some Q's in other threads about this.. But i still am confused on what i want to do so i figured i would make a new thread.. So come on guys, help me out. I'm not sure i want a stalker, that limited torso twist is something i don't want to deal with at this point. and neither that or the awesome has ballistics if i am not mistaken.

A tiny bit of background for those that don't know. I have 3 HBK's,, dragon (same as the trail one) No upgrades, but the entire basic boxes unlocked. And a catapult which i barely have used, and i really want to get a XL300 for, but the bloody things are like 5m) i also only have three mech bays clear, So which ever i pick i will buy 3 and level them to master level. Money is tight now, so no more bays for me.. so what ever i pick is what i will be using for the next few months which is why i am really torn.

I do like to ground and pound, and want something different to my HBK's which i play as short ranged fighters, but movement being key. I typically back up assaults, or help capture in conquest, or base protect often. But i think it is time for another type of mech for a different play style.


I am looking at the highlander 733, and the atlas AS7-D-DC I really like missiles and ballistics so both seem pretty well suited to me.


I notice the weight is 10 tons difference, and one has jump jets.. I would like to know how the speed differences are, and the torso twist differences.

Another plus if i go the atlas route, one of them comes with an XL 300 engine that i can eventually use in my catapult.

But the highlander also has jump jets, looks really cool, and is a tad bit smaller.. and might really be fun to play as sort of a super high damage hit and run HBK.. to me i think of it sorta like a HBK on steroids. perhaps not so much hit and run, more... Lumber and Pop, then retreat to cover.. But in some ways, maybe a similar game play that i have been using.


There is part of me that says.. Maybe i should get the Both, and see what i like, and use that final mech bay on a raven.. I really would like to try the whole Spotting/scouting/capture thing.. and i really LOVE ravens, since way back in mech 3..


Soo.. how about a poll.. (i would make a post poll, but i can't figure out how)


DO i buy

A, three highlanders starting with the 733

B, three atlases, starting with the D-DC

C, Or get both, and toss in a raven for good measure and For get about unlocking anything past basic for a few months and just save massive C-bills till i get more bays.



So what will it be??

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 May 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[zraven7]

First of all, C isn't a bad option. They are both good mechs.

So, simple answer, the Highlander is more mobile, and the Atlas is more durable. The big thing here is, of course, the JJs. Because of the JJ turn, you are much more mobile than the Atlas. You can spin easier to keep up with lights, and you can hop up onto ledges and cliffs that the Atlas would have to walk around.

The Atlas, however, is simply durable as heck, equips 10 more tons of goodies, and has an ECM model.

The Highlander will take more skill to pilot, the Atlas will take more strategy. Pretty much, decide if you want to plan your movements and attack carefully, before the combat, or whether you prefer to act in the moment and on the fly. If the former, Atlas. The Latter, Highlander.

Hope it helps.

[Neolisk]

Based on people I've been playing against, I'd recommend a Highlander.

zraven7, on 15 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Because of the JJ turn, you are much more mobile than the Atlas.

What's a JJ turn?

[OrbitalDK]

a jj turn is a turn you execute in the air while firing your jump jets, it doesn't change your direction of travel, just your facing, when you hit the ground you can move off in a new direction. Allows you to do quick, especially for an assault mech, 180.

[zraven7]

Neolisk, on 15 May 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Based on people I've been playing against, I'd recommend a Highlander.


What's a JJ turn?

Vargone, on 15 May 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

a jj turn is a turn you execute in the air while firing your jump jets, it doesn't change your direction of travel, just your facing, when you hit the ground you can move off in a new direction. Allows you to do quick, especially for an assault mech, 180.

This. Spinning in air allows you to rotate much faster than if you were on the ground, and you can also adjust your throttle when your in the air. So, for example, you can start walking forward, then JJ, rotate around 180 degrees in air while slamming your throttle into full reverse, and land starting to go in the same direction you were, but backwards.

[Koniving]

Recently my Highlander 733P Heavy Metal brawling rig with standard 320 XL 330 engine fought an Atlas DDC. (Right chassis, wrong rig) Only two jumpjets installed. My armor was cored on the front. His on the back (and quite red). After charging him at a speed he could only dream of, then I leaped over him, spun in the air, and landed nearly facing him. He's still twisting and starting to slow down so that he could turn faster. A slight torso twist for myself and my AC/10 AC/2 combination took him out. Cannons being on the arm are quite nice.

If you play with Highlanders in brawling rigs, remember that jumping over someone slower than you is awesome. (I do this with my Raven 4X and its AC/20 as well). If you fight them as an Atlas, never get close.

Most Highlanders run XL engines, though, so go for a side torso.

Still, one can't deny the beauty of the Atlas.



Atlas = Founder's D piloted by me.
Screenshot = Lordred

(The original rig I mentioned, which does perform exceptionally well but wasn't the correct mech is here: I took this rig and pimped it out just below. After using it, the thing was so damn good I loved it and it's now my ideal 733P rig.)

Edited by Koniving, 15 May 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[BoPop]

it's weird cuz i feel like a highlander can whoop an atlas arse, but at the same time i feel an atlas is harder to take down than a highlander. so maybe an atlas is more defensive and the highlander is more offensive. but they are both great chassis imo. can't really go wrong except that you might have more fun in a jumpjetting mech first. then return to the atlas. really tough decision you got bro hehe.

[zraven7]

Fair warning, btw. Once you go Jump Jets, you may not want to go back. Ever since I got my Trebbies and my Jenners, I have trouble even considering anything without JJs.

[Dude42]

Just don't be a poptart.

[zraven7]

Dude42, on 15 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Just don't be a poptart.

Poptart, schmoptart. They aren't that hard to deal with. Flank them.

[OrbitalDK]

zraven7, on 15 May 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Poptart, schmoptart. They aren't that hard to deal with. Flank them.

Poptarts have notorious tunnel vision. Especially if you luck out and are able to sneak up on them without blipping their sensors.

[Koniving]

Ironically my Heavy Metal and my 733P are made to be anti-poptarts. The tactic? Flank them. High speed and strong armor makes them exceptional. They have just enough jump to quickly vault over cover or to leap away from an impending 6 PPC burst.

Edited by Koniving, 15 May 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[zraven7]

Koniving, on 15 May 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Ironically my Heavy Metal and my 733P are made to be anti-poptarts. The tactic? Flank them. High speed and strong armor makes them exceptional. They have just enough jump to quickly vault over cover or to leap away from an impending 6 PPC burst.

Koniving, as always, you answer cheese with superior strategy. I commend you.

[OrbitalDK]

zraven7, on 15 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Koniving, as always, you answer cheese with superior strategy. I commend you.

LOL

[rook]

I would suggest the Atlas for you.

Reason: sounds like you are kinda like me, and don't earn C-bills to fast. That said, the Highlander has JJ's, which are very heavy; Class I, which are 2 tons each, add up fast. 3x on the HGN-732 (6 tons), and 4x on the HGN-733C (8 tons), for example. Though you can skimp on them, you start to lose one of the main advantages of the Highlander. My point being, when you have to allocate 6 tons to JJs, you end up either being slow with a standard engine or have to buy a big XL engine.

PS - don't buy the Atlas K (the one with the XL engine). If the main differences in the Atlas chassis is hardpoints, the AS7-K has the worst hardpoint distribution, and the extra AMS doesn't make up that difference.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

Speaking as a person that owns three AS7 (D, D-DC, RS) and three HGN (HM, 733P, 733C), both have their ups and downs. Atlas is just a walking death machine in the right hands. Hard to take down unless you run into a ac/40 jager or cat, or a quad/sextuple PPC stalker. Both can go roughly equivalent speeds but the atlas requires heavier engines to match the highlander's speed. Both chasis top out at 64.3 with speed tweak and maximum engine size which is 360 for the atlas and 325 for the highlanders (330 for the HGN-HM). At the moment I prefer my HGN-733C, I have an AC/20 with 4t ammo, two ML, and three SRM6 with 3t ammo and a single JJ fitted with a standard 320 engine. It utterly obliterates, I have practically the same build on my atlas D-DC (350 engine fitted) which also obliterates up close.

Overall the atlas has slightly more staying power while the highlanders have more mobility thanks to the jump jets. You really can't go wrong with either. One of my merc group pilots runs a 733 with a gauss, four srm6+artemis, and a pair of energy weapons, medium lasers I think. He scores ridiculous damage when he gets into close range.

TL;DR, both are great and can be fitted to excel at both short and long ranges, so go with one that fits your play style best!

[Koniving]

zraven7, on 15 May 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Koniving, as always, you answer cheese with superior strategy. I commend you.

Had to learn it to make the Flamer stalker work. Also works great for Gauss Spider and AC/20 Raven.

It just works great against any long range build, too!

Spoiler

Given the original flamer stalker build the only way to succeed is one on one brawling with a bull rush. Flamers blinding the opponent completely. Missiles doing the brunt of the damage. However you can never get close to LRMs, snipers, or anything really by rushing them head on. So I began snaking away from the herd, slipping in behind firing lines and taking out the most isolated LRM or sniper I can find. After that, I move on to the next, and the next. In great matches I go without ever getting noticed by more than one target at a time. In not so great ones they turn out like these:

The original flamer stalker: The good and the bad covered in less than a minute! 517 damage. Recording starts just before the first shot is made.


In this fresh one from the past few nights, I had taken out two enemies already. Both were isolated sniping prey. We moved on what was left of the main force. After engaging the first guy I went down to flank again while my team took on most of their attention.


Sometimes, things just go wrong. This has two matches in it. I'm referring to the second match in the vid:
When I initially tried to rush this position there was only one mech there, but I got stuck. I got closer to the position and still only knew of one. As I charged up I identified two mechs but lucked out in isolating the stalker. After dealing with my prey, I found 4 mechs grouped together. I chose the most isolated and fattest one as I'd do the most against him. Unfortunately the Atlas that had lost interest in the area altogether chose me because I, too, got isolated.


Another example of a bad situation where a flank attempt is met with a good defense. What sucks about Stalkers is once you commit that's it, to retreat is to die.

Edited by Koniving, 15 May 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[80Bit]

First, a note about XL300. I think you are wise to want one. In my opinion the XL300 is the single best item in the game to get. It is usable across a huge range of mechs and without a doubt a big bang for your buck. But please do not buy the Atlas-K to get one, it is the worst Atlas.

Now, it sounds to me you are a skirmish player with your Hunchback, which is typical. You like the mobility to get in and out of a fight. You should know that neither the Atlas or the Highlander is going to let you do this. With these mechs you can either peek out of cover for direct/indirect fire support, or you can commit and brawl. Even jumpjets are not going to give the mobility needed to skirmish.

Finally, while mastering mechs is important, because those double basic bonuses are really handy, the Atlases and Highlander variants are all similar enough that if you buy three, you won't really feel like you have three different mechs.

So if mech bays are an issue, I think you will end up having the most fun going with your option C, and getting three totally different mechs to play with.

[JC Daxion]

i just tried that highlander trial mech... I must say that thing was slower than a turtle.. Are all assaults this slow?? I was having trouble killing a single catapult this last game.. (it got me..) I know if i was in one of my HBK's i could of killed it.. Took me like a year to get to the spot everyone was fighting..



*edit,, really the only other mech i played was that trial dragon.. it felt kinda similar to the hunchback sorta. this whole assault thing is making me think i'm going to be a total noobie again. thing even twists slower.. I felt like i was in slow motion


do the modified assaults really wake up?

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 May 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[zraven7]

JC Daxion, on 15 May 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

i just tried that highlander trial mech... I must say that thing was slower than a turtle.. Are all assaults this slow??

They certainly aren't sprint cars.
Assaults are supposed to be large support fire platforms. Slow happens when you get "Large". Most builds have you clocked somewhere between 40kph and 60kph.

Edited by zraven7, 15 May 2013 - 10:22 AM.