271 replies to this topic

[Kyynele]

I didn't play during R&R but I fail to see any positive gameplay effects it could have. It rewards minimizing risks. Everyone trying to minimize their losses will lead to boring games. It will encourage high alpha sniping even more, and LRM boating if the missiles get buffed later on.

Some of the best moments in the game are those desperate last stands, where the last mech tries to take down as many enemies he can with him, and sometimes even wins a match despite the odds. Why on earth would anyone want to replace that with the last mech by default trying to save his *** instead?

[MustrumRidcully]

Narcisoldier, on 15 May 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Elo


Cadet bonus, removal of rewards for non-participation

Suicide Trials still participate, just not much. I doubt anyone could implement a system where you could disintuish between an unlucky scout dying from an enemy Alpha strike and a sucidal mech.

Quote

If you torso twist, you get to live longer, you increase your chances of winning and getting that sweet victory bonus. Why shouldn't you pay for the armor and internals you trashed to save your engine?

You didn'T pay for internals. Internals were dirt cheap for some reason. Armour was costly, and it was costly enough that it was questionable it was a good use of your money to risk it. Especially since you still had plenty of opportunities to lose a match even if you made it to the end. You're just 1 out of 8 players on your side.

Quote

And the current role of lights and mediums as a handicap for their team is better?

I don't want Lights or Mediums to be a handicap, and I don't want them to exist purely to earn money so you get to play the fun toys. They should be fun and useful in their own right. If PGI can't achieve that, they failed their Role Warfare goals. Or they need to change it, and put in "Money-Maker" as one of their roles. But that's even less the game I signed up for then it's now.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 16 May 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[stjobe]

I'd like a REVISED version of R&R back - the old version can stay away. But some economic balance is not only necessary, it is very much a staple of the BattleTech Universe: Life is cheap, 'mechs aren't.

I'd also like to see differentiation due to affiliation, e.g.

• House Unit - pays no R&R, but gets lower match rewards.
  
• Merc Unit - pays 50% R&R, gets normal match rewards.
  
• Lone Wolf - pays 100% R&R, gets 200% match rewards.

That's just an example, btw, not what it'd necessarily would have to be. But it would make every player able to choose whether he'd want to play low risk, low reward, or high risk, high reward - and add a dimension that at least I think is currently missing.

[Roadbuster]

Snuglninja, on 15 May 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Sorry but its true. The closest thing pgi has ever had to balance and would stop a lot of this ppc assault fest. Doesn't have to be exactly what it was before and maybe only used for players in cw/merc units but what we got now is a **** poor console game with no sim feel or consequences for cheese builds or smart play.

To be honest, I miss it too, but on the other side, I don't.
Yes it took some of your earned CB (not really, because we just earn less now) but you felt more involved with the whole thing.
Ammo would've been too expensive without the free 75% rearm but the repairs were quite ok.

On the other hand, it's something most people would turn to auto mode because nobody would join a match with a damaged mech or without ammo, and If it would be used for balancing it would give players with more CB an advantage => premium accouts earning more CB => P2W.

[TruePoindexter]

Snuglninja, on 15 May 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Sorry but its true. The closest thing pgi has ever had to balance and would stop a lot of this ppc assault fest.

How does repair punish PPC boats more so than other weapons?

[Kitane]

The last R&R was an unmitigated disaster for mechs depending on XL engines. They were forced to both win AND survive at least 50% of their matches without significant damage to their torso, even a small damage to XL engine removed any hope of C-bill gain from that match.

With ELO most people would be screwed up and forced to alternate better mechs with cheaper money makers.

[PartyAlias]

TruePoindexter, on 16 May 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

How does repair punish PPC boats more so than other weapons?

Maybe by enforcing damaged internal equipment repair cost + overheat should damage your weapons and heatsinks. Boats will remove 6 ppcs, if one 170% overheat will burn away all your ppcs and double heatsinks Why do ammo mecks blow up for overheats and ppc/laser boats dont, btw?

[MustrumRidcully]

PartyAlias, on 16 May 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Maybe by enforcing damaged internal equipment repair cost + overheat should damage your weapons and heatsinks. Boats will remove 6 ppcs, if one 170% overheat will burn away all your ppcs and double heatsinks Why do ammo mecks blow up for overheats and ppc/laser boats dont, btw?

But who's to say that PPC boats even overheat to 170 %? Your second alpha in a row might bring you to something like 130 %. PPC boats can easily overheat, but that doesn't mean a PPC boat user will let it happen all the time, and always go further into the negative as non- PPC boats.

[PartyAlias]

Stalker skiing, do you use it? 130%, meh...

[Kyynele]

PartyAlias, on 16 May 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Maybe by enforcing damaged internal equipment repair cost + overheat should damage your weapons and heatsinks. Boats will remove 6 ppcs, if one 170% overheat will burn away all your ppcs and double heatsinks Why do ammo mecks blow up for overheats and ppc/laser boats dont, btw?

You don't need repair cost for that. If high heat would burn up your weapons and heat sinks, most 6 PPC stalkers would already be struggling.

[Joseph Mallan]

Escef, on 15 May 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Albatross was 30 tons heavier, used an XL engine, and cost four times as much. For the price of a single Albatross you could field a lance of Thuds, a much more versatile and deadly option.

If you were a Merc commander or a House Army commander, which would you rather have? One assault Mech or a Lance of heavies? These are choices a command need to make. Salvage an Albatross...Keep it or Sell it, and buy 2 T'bolts, some Ammo a laser or two maybe some armor. Good deal right there. Or repair the Albatross in our command?

[HighlandCoo]

Sorry but R&R was not fun.

It was just a series of repetative mouse clicks I had to make every. single. match.

What a pain.

Perhaps if the implementation of it changed, but as it was? No thanks - not fun or interesting.

[Op4blushift]

Old RnR was horrible and completely unnessecary. Reintroducing it (even in a more fair and balanced way) right now seems kind of pointless, as every game is just an insta-match with no actual house fighting or campaign style thing. However, once CW comes in I could definitely get behind a revamped and less punishing RnR coming back in since it would actually make sense.

[Livewyr]

From what I read in another thread a while ago (I think it was P-Park who said it, not sure) but it sounded like they were doing away with the trial mech system and just giving new players a customizable starter mech.

Since trial mechs were your PGI bailout.. I don't think RnR is making a comeback.

(RnR at this point would just be an indirect nerf to non energy weapons.. unless they gave some mythical penalty for a destroyed energy weapon: ham-handed balance.)

[Tompaboy]

Escef, on 16 May 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

I'd have no problems with R&R if there was a "power down and concede" option. If you are the last man, know you can't win,and can't out run the rest of the opfor, it's kinda' crappy to be forced to get killed when you'd rather surrender. (It would probably cut down on cap wins when the last enemy team member goes into hiding.)

There was some chivalry before, that disappeared with removal of R&R.
Now everyone are to kill every other and there is noway one can ask for mercy if outmatched, outgunned
or outnumbered.

Before a powered down mech was mostly left alone (given mercy) unless absolute certain it was a farmer and
that is something i kind of miss in this game today.

I hope we can get R&R back in some revisioned way as the old system also promoted all of the
earlier mentioned behavior posted here that wasnt good.

[trollocaustic]

As a World of tanks player, I joined here for the lack of repair bullcrap, it devolves games into using eachother as meatshields.

[Snuglninja]

R&R was harsh in its original form so is a new guy playing game after game with ppc boat alo a him in the face. It could be implemented better I agree but it's part of a sim. I don't even think everyone has to do it. If you want to play cw and fight over planets you que up that match and play a game that involves great risk and even greater reward. If that's not your cup of tea, you que up tdm jump in your 6 ppc stalker and play the game as it is now with little risk and even smaller reward.
And no more arguments about r&r making you play with mechs you don't like pgi does that already. I have to play 2 variants I don't like to master the one I do.

[WolvesX]

if R&R will make a comeback... I will start to do... "strange" things in matches.

[StalaggtIKE]

The old R&R had it flaws, however I still miss it. I would like to see the return of a more refined version, more incentives for:

• smart play
  
• completing objectives
  
• staying alive

R&R did not do much for game balance, however it added to the immersion.


Edit: R&R did help keep Artemis LRM boats in check.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 16 May 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[JohnathanSwift]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

If you were a Merc commander or a House Army commander, which would you rather have? One assault Mech or a Lance of heavies? These are choices a command need to make. Salvage an Albatross...Keep it or Sell it, and buy 2 T'bolts, some Ammo a laser or two maybe some armor. Good deal right there. Or repair the Albatross in our command?

Except you don't get to salvage whole mechs and the system made the game unplayable.


The only thing R&R did was add more to the grind so it was in line with WoT.


It kills me you'll complain over GD being gone and then attempt to burn down the game.