271 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

JohnathanSwift, on 16 May 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Except you don't get to salvage whole mechs and the system made the game unplayable.


The only thing R&R did was add more to the grind so it was in line with WoT.


It kills me you'll complain over GD being gone and then attempt to burn down the game.

No you don't but you DO get paid for them... I miss salvaging Mechs from the field!

And I disagree. I had an Ammo hungry(11 tons) Missile boat Atlas in CB I died a lot due to bad frame fates on my laptop, and I was making money.

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 May 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

No you don't but you DO get paid for them... I miss salvaging Mechs from the field!

And I disagree. I had an Ammo hungry(11 tons) Missile boat Atlas in CB I died a lot due to bad frame fates on my laptop, and I was making money.

So it did actually not reward or provide incentives for good play?

[Snuglninja]

Let me back up I don't want to argue over the old r&r. I don't think you should do anything you don't want to. I do think it adds to the merc feel. When cw starts have house players continue playing like this no R&R getting a couple thousand cbills a game. Now if I que up a game lets say for planet x with my friends then it comes up we are assaulting planet x this mission pays xmillion cbills plusa stash of ll or armor get ready to drop now I have to weigh reward with risk do I grab my atlas do I just use a hunchback. Do I fight do I cap. I think that would add vvariety to games and let players do what they like.

[ManDaisy]

I miss R&R as well, granted it was crippled as hell by allowing free reloads and unrepaired mechs launch and drag their team down. If these issues were fixed and as suggested an eject button put in, things would be better.

[Joseph Mallan]

MustrumRidcully, on 16 May 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

So it did actually not reward or provide incentives for good play?

I made more money then playing a Lighter Mech with less ammo. But actual "good play"...

I make a lot more money now, playing a stupid expensive build. With no CASE, an XL and Gauss and SRM ammo in torsos. Does that answer your question properly Must?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 May 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

[Deleted Content]

Sorry what? I paid out the back side or Ammo + 75% destruction and I still made some money during most closed Beta. Even during the depression. Did I say something that implied we don't get a salvage bonus? I was trying to impress that something besides money would be nice. I am running on empty right now so I could be jumbling my thoughts a bit.

Edited by Destined, 16 May 2013 - 10:32 AM.
Quote clean up

[Onmyoudo]

R&R as it was... was terrible. That said I would like to see it in the game, I just don't see a way to have it without giving the veteran players a huge advantage over newbies by being able to run better builds.

[Escef]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

If you were a Merc commander or a House Army commander, which would you rather have? One assault Mech or a Lance of heavies? These are choices a command need to make. Salvage an Albatross...Keep it or Sell it, and buy 2 T'bolts, some Ammo a laser or two maybe some armor. Good deal right there. Or repair the Albatross in our command?

There are a grand total of 2 reasons to take 1 Albatross over 4 Thuds.

• You only have 1 pilot.
  
• You only have 1 cubicle in the dropship.

That's it.

[stjobe]

Onmyoudo, on 16 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

R&R as it was... was terrible. That said I would like to see it in the game, I just don't see a way to have it without giving the veteran players a huge advantage over newbies by being able to run better builds.

Veterans already have a huge advantage over newbies by being able to run better builds.

Having R&R would make *everyone* have to mind their cash flow, not just newbies. Sure, I can take a pretty long string of losses due to me having lots of CB, but I can't take an infinite amount of them. Sooner or later even several million CB run out if you operate at a loss.

Also, we didn't have Elo back then, which should (theoretically) take care of the problem of newbies facing veterans in the first place.

[Joseph Mallan]

Escef, on 16 May 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

There are a grand total of 2 reasons to take 1 Albatross over 4 Thuds.

• You only have 1 pilot.
  
• You only have 1 cubicle in the dropship.

That's it.

1) Yeah that is true. but the other 3 can be back up when the first is shot up.
2) I have 4-5 open bays right now

I am thinking more for a command level CW stuff. Not just my Collection of seat cushions!

[MustrumRidcully]

stjobe, on 16 May 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Veterans already have a huge advantage over newbies by being able to run better builds.

Having R&R would make *everyone* have to mind their cash flow, not just newbies. Sure, I can take a pretty long string of losses due to me having lots of CB, but I can't take an infinite amount of them. Sooner or later even several million CB run out if you operate at a loss.

But you won't operate at a loss if you got the good gear already, and your Elo score is mostly settled.

Better equipment helps. Including helping to pay off its cost. If it didn't, no one would use such equipment.

Quote

Also, we didn't have Elo back then, which should (theoretically) take care of the problem of newbies facing veterans in the first place.

That might be true if newbies would start with the lowest Elo score, and if the community is big enough to ensure that only equal-ELO players meet.

[Saltychipmunk]

reminds me of the d3 repair at a loss crap only took all the people playing with me at the time 3 days to stop playing d3 forever because of it.


id be for R&R IF trial mechs weren't total **** , Trial mechs are throw away mechs , all universally bad. Not only do they not have double heat sinks ( which is required now sadly) but they don't even have enough heat sinks to run the weapons they do have .

This doesn't even cover the fact that pretty much all the trail mechs use a truly awful combination of some of the most under powered weapons in the game in very terrible split setups


the gap in power is too great and these mechs are simply not fun to play with, against or as.


I refuse to use a trial mech EVER

and if i had a choice , between playing matches at a financial loss or playing a trial mech , then i would play another game

[Cferre]

Snuglninja, on 15 May 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Sorry but its true. The closest thing pgi has ever had to balance and would stop a lot of this ppc assault fest. Doesn't have to be exactly what it was before and maybe only used for players in cw/merc units but what we got now is a **** poor console game with no sim feel or consequences for cheese builds or smart play.

I don't like getting punished like in WoT. So I left that game. R&R will always scare away (new) players.
It doesnt matter how you would implent it.
And ppc fest? Wtf has this to do with R&R? Apart from the never ending weapon balance, you do know that missiles are currently quite worthless right?

[Snuglninja]

why can't we have both? I'm a new player I play the game just like it is now. Or I want to pug. No r&r make some cbills couple new mechs. A little impact on cw.
NowI want to try something new. I que up cw page and see contracts like 8vs8 River City assault 5 million salvage and bonus for destroying enemy. Alpine conquest 10 million bonus for capping 12vs12. I dropin one of these games more impact on cw and a risk reward system.R&R I can make a lot or lose a lot. I chose

[Fate 6]

Tor6, on 15 May 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

If you think that R&R would help with this you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses. R&R was horribly implemented and would do nothing to dissuade people from boating PPCs, a weapon which does not take ammo nor an XL to run.

True, but it would dissuade people from running so many heavies and assaults, and that is the part that the OP wants. Making XL engines really costly to repair is not something which the OP is really hoping for. I think the OP just wants a way to balance how many heavies and assaults we see. Unfortunately, 8 man games mean a lot of potential fielded firepower. That needs to be limited by weight. Even before PPCWarrior Online, this was an issue in the balancing of medium mechs. They will never have a role as long as there is no limit on larger mechs.

[LethalMezzle]

I don't miss it at all, I'm glad it's gone. This game has enough grinding as it is. You grind to unlock new mech chassis, you grind to be able to customise it, you grind to unlock the pilot skill buffs, you grind to unlock modules...

It's a chore for someone who doesn't play this game constantly, and yes, I am fully aware that the average rate of C-Bill income is pretty much the same during R&R as it is now, but the prospect of being able to lose money when you play a match does not sit well with less devoted players who play maybe five games before going off to do something else.

As for the whole "why don't you play smarter?" argument you have to realise that some of us are actually pretty mediocre at this game, and we cannot just snap our fingers and suddenly become better players. Sometimes we mess up and get killed quickly. Sometimes we have a team even worse than us and lose because it's 4 v 8 after one minute.

Edited by LethalMezzle, 16 May 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[stjobe]

MustrumRidcully, on 16 May 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

But you won't operate at a loss if you got the good gear already, and your Elo score is mostly settled.

Better equipment helps. Including helping to pay off its cost. If it didn't, no one would use such equipment.

If your Elo score is mostly settled, you more than likely are playing other people at the same equipment level as yourself, and would only win 50% of your matches (since that's the point of having an Elo system).

Depending on how the R&R system was set up, there would still be the potential to operate at a loss if the loss in the 50% of the matches you'd lose (and any that you got destroyed in) was greater than the earnings you'd get from the ones you won and didn't get destroyed.

[Khanublikhan]

The game as is:

A rush to be a C-Bills Millionaire. Buy, outfit and field biggest and most expensive mech. No consequences for getting mech shot up. The end.

The game with previous R&R:

A heavy handed implimentation of monetary penalties which penalised mechs for using armour as armour.

What R&R should be:

A deft, light implimentation of monetary costs to influence players to play tactically to --maximise- their own profits and their unit's profits. Armour damage should be dirt cheap to repair.

Rest: (aah!) Cease work or movement in order to relax, refresh oneself, or recover strength.
Recuperate: (aah!) Recover from illness or exertion.

Any implimentation of R&R should *add* to the fun factor of the MWO Experience in line with the deep lore of the Battletech setting; and not be to the games' detriment or to the detriment of the player.

Which was why I suggested Tech Crew skills in a previous thread on this very subject.

Speaking bluntly - the removal of R&R was strike one against the developers. Yes, I am keeping score. R&R (and salvage) are a cornerstone of the battletech setting. The game suffers for their non-inclusion.

Edited by Khanublikhan, 16 May 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[stjobe]

Khanublikhan, on 16 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Rest: (aah!) Cease work or movement in order to relax, refresh oneself, or recover strength.
Recuperate: (aah!) Recover from illness or exertion.

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I have to point out that we're talking about Repair & Re-arm, not Rest & Recuperation (although my suggestion above also adds a bit of Risk & Reward to the system).

[Khanublikhan]

stjobe, on 16 May 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I have to point out that we're talking about Repair & Re-arm, not Rest & Recuperation (although my suggestion above also adds a bit of Risk & Reward to the system).

Of course. I was trying to suggest Repair & Rearm (Rest & Recuperate) should be a fun and pleasant and involving post match experience by using those words specifically.