41 replies to this topic

[Kraven Kor]

Extra heat for multiple weapons of the same type is not the answer and needlessly penalizes things like the HBK-4P or JM6-DD.

Nerfing PPC rate of fire I'm OK with, but it still does not address boating (in fact, it will probably make PPC boats BETTER because they'll overheat less.)

Here is how you do it.

Make heat a non-linear scale - the hotter you are, the slower you cool.

And then add in heat penalties.

Up to the 50% mark on the heat scale, heat dissipates as it does currently - 1 point per 10 seconds per heat sink (multipled by DHS modifier in case of DHS.)

Starting at 50%, heat begins to dissipate more and more slowly as it rises. Not a lot, just enough that mechs that run cool will be able to more easily maintain a high rate of fire using chain mode, while boats will have to time their alpha-strikes more - either to avoid going over 50%, or to cool off faster once over 50%.

In addition, at 50% heat, you start seeing various effects of heat - slower convergence, slower arm / torso movement, slower acceleration, engine damage (once over 100%) - that kind of thing.

This will encourage players to stay below 50% heat, force more paced fire, and severely nerf the PPC boats in the sense that they won't be able to just fire and shutdown over and over.

[trollocaustic]

This only nerfs energy. Which goes up to 50% easily in combat.

We need to nerf easymode gaussboats instead of just tunnel-visioning on the only boat that takes intelligence to use.

[Syllogy]

This would only be nerfing PPC boats, not Splatcats, AC20 boats or Gauss boats.

[trollocaustic]

Lets not forget how easy it is to go over 50% in a regular laser mech fighting anything.

[Kraven Kor]

Syllogy, on 17 May 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

This would only be nerfing PPC boats, not Splatcats, AC20 boats or Gauss boats.

Gauss boats are already kind of nerfed - RoF and Glass Cannon nature of the Gauss.

AC/20 + Medium Lasers is a high heat build, and again, slow RoF on the AC/20. Even my 2x AC/20 + 2x MLas Jager runs stupid hot if I'm not extremely careful.

Right now, it would appear - to me - that the PPC boats are the only major problem.

This would slow RoF for just about all mechs but for AC/5 boats, pure AC/20 boats, and gauss boats.

[LordBraxton]

trollocaustic, on 17 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

This only nerfs energy. Which goes up to 50% easily in combat.

We need to nerf easymode gaussboats instead of just tunnel-visioning on the only boat that takes intelligence to use.

you are joking right?

I have a dual gauss phract, and a 4ppc phract.

One is ~70kph with a 30pt alpha, the other is 86.6kph with a 40pt alpha

PPC boats are the strongest boats in the game bar none

PPCs need 1-2 more heat

[trollocaustic]

one can fire over and over with no care in the world, the other has to wait half an hour to cool down.

[Syllogy]

LordBraxton, on 17 May 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

you are joking right?

I have a dual gauss phract, and a 4ppc phract.

One is ~70kph with a 30pt alpha, the other is 86.6kph with a 40pt alpha

PPC boats are the strongest boats in the game bar none

PPCs need 1-2 more heat

My PPC K2 runs 78kph with a 40 point Alpha.

PPC Boats cannot maintain the same DPS as Ballistic Boats. Ballistic Boats are much stronger than PPC Boats, bar none.

[Kraven Kor]

Syllogy, on 17 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

My PPC K2 runs 78kph with a 40 point Alpha.

PPC Boats cannot maintain the same DPS as Ballistic Boats. Ballistic Boats are much stronger than PPC Boats, bar none.

They really aren't right now, due to the prevalence of jump snipers.

In a "stand downrange and trade shots" fight, I agree with you.

In the pop from cover and snipe and duck trench warfare we have right now, PPC boats rule the day. With Large Laser boats a close second since they can at least get some damage back on the jumpers easier than counter-fire by your own snipers.

In fact, heck, this change might even be a boon to jump-snipers, in a way, since they'll have more time to cool off than a hot brawler.

But I do want to see some implementation of heat penalties, and enable cooler running builds to excel in certain situations. Right now, "I never overheat" just means "I don't have enough alpha strike to bother dropping."

[Syllogy]

I think I'd prefer a small randomized cone of fire implemented for ballistic weapons fired while on the run. It affects all of the weapons and builds that are being problematic without penalizing pilots that take time to line up their shots.

Small enough to remove the pinpoint Alpha without removing the skill needed to hit the target, but only when you are on the move. Maybe @ 60%+ of your max speed?

Edited by Syllogy, 17 May 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[trollocaustic]

Quote

In the pop from cover and snipe and duck trench warfare we have right now, PPC boats rule the day. With Large Laser boats a close second since they can at least get some damage back on the jumpers easier than counter-fire by your own snipers.

Poptarting, seen from this, is actually skill.
It's using skill to counter the newb advantage of ballisdicks.

[Kraven Kor]

trollocaustic, on 17 May 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Poptarting, seen from this, is actually skill.
It's using skill to counter the newb advantage of ballisdicks.

Are you serious?

I'm not disagreeing that jump sniping takes a touch of skill. It does.

And countering them is, well, possible, but it is not simple.

But "ballisdicks?" So everyone that uses ballistics... is a newb... and a {not going to circumvent profanity filter.}

This is why we can't have nice things!

[8RoundsRapid]

I think it's time for everybody to move to the 'acceptance' phase. Poptarting/PPC boating is being considered a feature by PGI, and thusly, 'fixing' it is not really a consideration for them - just like ECM.

There may be some small tweaks here and there, but if you guys think that boating and/or poptarting is an unfortunate side effect of... something, I will call you naive at this point. It's by design.

They aren't going to change pinpoint convergence, and the heat issue is being given token lip service to mollify the forums, and THATS IT.

[Kraven Kor]

Syllogy, on 17 May 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

I think I'd prefer a small randomized cone of fire implemented for ballistic weapons fired while on the run. It affects all of the weapons and builds that are being problematic without penalizing pilots that take time to line up their shots.

Small enough to remove the pinpoint Alpha without removing the skill needed to hit the target, but only when you are on the move. Maybe @ 60%+ of your max speed?

Cone of Fire will not really harm the pros, and it will severely penalize the not-pros.

It is a non-starter for me; not due to randomization, but because it will hurt everyone, and hurt the less-skilled players the most.

[trollocaustic]

Quote

But "ballisdicks?" So everyone that uses ballistics... is a newb... and a {not going to circumvent profanity filter.}

What? Ballisidcks is a easy pun. But still, someone sitting on their rear and using a gauss to forget about both heat and range getting his face pwn'd because someone else mounted ERPPC and jumped him over and over is still a show of skill on the poptarter.

Edited by trollocaustic, 17 May 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Syllogy]

Kraven Kor, on 17 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Cone of Fire will not really harm the pros, and it will severely penalize the not-pros.

It is a non-starter for me; not due to randomization, but because it will hurt everyone, and hurt the less-skilled players the most.

Yes, it will hurt ballistic builds.

However, if the cone is only big enough to be the difference between pinpoint strikes and spread out damage, (Not the difference between a hit and a miss) and only while on the move, it shouldn't hurt that much.

Edited by Syllogy, 17 May 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Kraven Kor, on 17 May 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Cone of Fire will not really harm the pros, and it will severely penalize the not-pros.

It is a non-starter for me; not due to randomization, but because it will hurt everyone, and hurt the less-skilled players the most.

I think that the game being more difficult for all players would be a GOOD thing. There are already tons of easy shooters out there. PGI is a small outfit, they need to cater to a niche market instead of competing on the Big boy's turf.

[Johnny Z]

One idea is to do what other games do and make the super power weapons expensive and hard to get... not in the game sucks sense but this could be put to use in some way. This would expand the current game in a small way also. I am sure they have thought of this as most evey game has this.
Again this shouldnt be used in a negative way please

For instance if one weapon is slightly over powered it could have limited use before needing repair or replacement or extremely limited ammo. Game balance can break even the best games so this has to be top priority as it already is from what I have seen. This beta game is all about getting game balance right I am sure.

[Shae Starfyre]

Change recycle time to charged amount = damage percentage, and allow for firing at any time with charge equating to a percent of the damage, but same heat as you overload the system. Solves everything referencing energy weapons/boating.

Discipline will mark those who are truly worthy.

[Kraven Kor]

Johnny Z, on 17 May 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

One idea is to do what other games do and make the super power weapons expensive and hard to get... not in the game sucks sense but this could be put to use in some way. This would expand the current game in a small way also. I am sure they have thought of this as most evey game has this.
Again this shouldnt be used in a negative way please

For instance if one weapon is slightly over powered it could have limited use before needing repair or replacement or extremely limited ammo. Game balance can break even the best games so this has to be top priority as it already is from what I have seen. This beta game is all about getting game balance right I am sure.

But that is Pay2Win in this game - players with premium time and hero mechs will find it much easier to afford using the better stuff.

You can't put the good stuff behind a pay wall and expect it to fix anything. It will just mean those that pay have that much more advantage over those that don't, which none of us should want (Edit: no idea why I closed that sentence that way.)

Edited by Kraven Kor, 17 May 2013 - 09:00 AM.