154 replies to this topic

[Satan n stuff]

Vassago Rain, on 20 May 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

Is that why you never see them in the game now?

You never see mine because I´m always grinding new mechs and the only ones I have that I haven´t mastered are the X5 and the Yen Lo Wang, I am actually running the X5 at the moment and I´m waiting until I have two more Centurions at elite before I use the Wang again. For the record I currently own 11 medium mechs total, 9 of which are mastered. Just because people thing a mech is bad doesn't mean it is. Try them for yourself if you disagree.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Did someone really try to say the Cicada is better than the Jenner? Really?

[Budor]

This makes sense op.

[Joseph Mallan]

I think the reason is more simple. More dakka on heavies.

[Vassago Rain]

***** n stuff, on 20 May 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

You never see mine because I´m always grinding new mechs and the only ones I have that I haven´t mastered are the X5 and the Yen Lo Wang, I am actually running the X5 at the moment and I´m waiting until I have two more Centurions at elite before I use the Wang again. For the record I currently own 11 medium mechs total, 9 of which are mastered. Just because people thing a mech is bad doesn't mean it is. Try them for yourself if you disagree.

I have 3 mastered hunchbacks, 3 mastered cents, 3 buckets, and will likely get 3 BJs, too. How does this make mediums good again?

Medium mechs are about as useful as medium kicks and punches in fighting games. Not strong or long enough to compete with heavies, but not fast enough to compete with the lights.

[Budor]

Im ok with the Wang, the 4P and to a degree with the 7M (because streaks are until june). But all other meds are useless atm due to useless SRMs. Cicadas are not meds in my world, they are fat lights.

If they overbuff LRMs tomorrow all meds will be extinct.

Edited by Budor, 20 May 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Hunchbacks and Centurions are supposed to be slow brawlers. But the current meta is forcing them to drop the heavy weapons and equip the fastest engines and become light hunters or base capers. That is very anticlimactic. When was the last time you've seen a slow brawling medium mech?

With R&R gone, the best way to promote mediums is to introduce a bonus for damaging and killing a heavier mechs. You killed an Atlas while piloting a Hunchback? 2x more C-Bills and XP. That would bring back light and medium brawlers, snipers and lrm boats. A Trenchbucket with LRMs would make sense if you got the same cash for doing half the damage of an LRM Atlas.

Right now, given equal skill at piloting medium and assault mechs, you will get more C-Bills and XP in an assault mech. They simply have more firepower and armor. And this is how it is supposed to be. I want to fear that Atlas when I'm in a medium mech. I don't want them to be equal. But players should be rewarded for taking a bigger risk. Right now, there is none.

There are a lot of players out there, that would brawl in a medium mech knowing that each kill is worth twice the money. Heck, I think we would see even Commando brawlers armed with 3xSRM6 taking their chances against heavier mechs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 20 May 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Zyllos]

Sybreed, on 19 May 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

if speed is the only "redeeming" factor for medium mechs, then something is really, really wrong with the game.

This 100%.

Speed is not everything when it comes to a Medium. Speed lets you relocate your damage in a dynamic fight or fix mistakes but a Medium mech can not get enough speed for it to matter in the middle of a fight for dodging due to size.

And I do not think the "Speed Tweak" is effecting anything because those same Mediums also get the benefit of the skill.

[Zyllos]

And those who say that we need to incentivize Medium mechs is not really the answer.

I really think PGI is moving to a tonnage system with the respawn game mode coming with the lobby. You will be able to ready up to 4 mechs under a certain tonnage amount (200t seems good).

This means players can easily have 4 respawns with 3 Mediums and 1 Heavy. Assault players will only be able to play with 4 mechs if they play a Light along side it, with the 2 Mediums. If you play 2 Heavies, the best you can do is take another Medium which means you will only get 3 respawns now instead of 4. Or you could easily play 2 Atlai but with only 1 respawn.

What this will do it bring more face time to Medium mechs because to gain all the respawns, you have to play Mediums or accept that you will respawn less often.

This also lets the player make choices without being forced into a mech they don't want while bringing a tonnage limit to the game.

Edited by Zyllos, 20 May 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[silentD11]

Vassago Rain, on 20 May 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

I have 3 mastered hunchbacks, 3 mastered cents, 3 buckets, and will likely get 3 BJs, too. How does this make mediums good again?

Medium mechs are about as useful as medium kicks and punches in fighting games. Not strong or long enough to compete with heavies, but not fast enough to compete with the lights.

You couldn't be more wrong about fighting games. Take Ryu, his crouching MK is by far his best move. Beats out lights and heavies through hefty priority and huge range. It's his best normal and defacto go to move, also links into all his specials and suppers. Plus his medium standing strong is his over head and key to breaking crouch blocks. There's also his glorious jumping medium punch that lands two hits and sets up a super. His jumping MK is also often better air to air than his HK.

Ryu is not the only character in this way. There was a famous win back in Alpha 2 in a high level tournament where the guy only used Rose crouching medium punch, it was that balls out broken. Mediums have always been amazing in fighters.

[Satan n stuff]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Did someone really try to say the Cicada is better than the Jenner? Really?

Wanna fight my Cicada ( any of them ) to find out? To keep things balanced no using the D against anything other than the X5.

silentD11, on 20 May 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

You couldn't be more wrong about fighting games. Take Ryu, his crouching MK is by far his best move. Beats out lights and heavies through hefty priority and huge range. It's his best normal and defacto go to move, also links into all his specials and suppers. Plus his medium standing strong is his over head and key to breaking crouch blocks. There's also his glorious jumping medium punch that lands two hits and sets up a super. His jumping MK is also often better air to air than his HK.

Ryu is not the only character in this way. There was a famous win back in Alpha 2 in a high level tournament where the guy only used Rose crouching medium punch, it was that balls out broken. Mediums have always been amazing in fighters.

Good job on missing the point in Vassago's post. This is the MWO forum, not the Street Fighter forum.
Now as for the actual point, mediums can do anything any other class can, and believe it or not they do it reasonably well. Having some more generalist mechs in your team is usually a good thing when the specialists get taken out or rendered useless. For this reason alone, medium mechs are viable, and that's not getting into how you can counter specialist mechs of any type because you can either outrun/outmaneuver them or outgun/outlast them. If you have no specific strengths, you really should play to the enemy's weaknesses and that's what mediums do best.

[Mechteric]

I don't often reveal my secret mech recipes, but this one I will show as an example of a fast medium that is mean as hell. I've 1v1'd plenty of lights and came out on top.

TBT-5J ERPPC 4ML

[Nicholas Carlyle]

***** n stuff, on 20 May 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Wanna fight my Cicada ( any of them ) to find out? To keep things balanced no using the D against anything other than the X5.

Why can't I use just the D?

CapperDeluxe, on 20 May 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

I don't often reveal my secret mech recipes, but this one I will show as an example of a fast medium that is mean as hell. I've 1v1'd plenty of lights and came out on top.

TBT-5J ERPPC 4ML

I'm not trying to be mean...but WOW you beat mechs lighter than you?

It's sad when that's the best thing we can say about a medium mech. And Lets be honest, I think you put the best light pilot ina Jenner against the best medium pilot in any medium, and the Jenner wins.

[Zyllos]

CapperDeluxe, on 20 May 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

I don't often reveal my secret mech recipes, but this one I will show as an example of a fast medium that is mean as hell. I've 1v1'd plenty of lights and came out on top.

TBT-5J ERPPC 4ML

Ewww....

[Satan n stuff]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why can't I use just the D?

You can, but then you shouldn't expect me to use the 2A or 2B.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I wasn't going to rip on his mech, but if I'm fighting that mech. I'd actually just pick off one of the arms before finishing it off.

***** n stuff, on 20 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

You can, but then you shouldn't expect me to use the 2A or 2B.

That's fine, you'll still lose every time. Even the X-5 vs. the D.

[Mechteric]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

I'm not trying to be mean...but WOW you beat mechs lighter than you?

It's sad when that's the best thing we can say about a medium mech. And Lets be honest, I think you put the best light pilot ina Jenner against the best medium pilot in any medium, and the Jenner wins.

No problem, I think what I should have mentioned is that a lot of times with medium mechs if you want to go fast you have to give up a lot of firepower, so by the end you have the same weapons as a light but less speed and a bigger target. But there's some good variants to be had on the Treb that are not only effective versus lights but also good firepower when going up against bigger targets.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

CapperDeluxe, on 20 May 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

No problem, I think what I should have mentioned is that a lot of times with medium mechs if you want to go fast you have to give up a lot of firepower, so by the end you have the same weapons as a light but less speed and a bigger target. But there's some good variants to be had on the Treb that are not only effective versus lights but also good firepower when going up against bigger targets.

I don't think anyone is trying to say that Mediums are completely useless.

I think what people are saying is if you take skill out of the equation, they are probably the worst mech class in the game. And you should avoid them if you want to be competitive.

Note I do not take my own advice, and pilot my Cent's regularly.

[Satan n stuff]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

I wasn't going to rip on his mech, but if I'm fighting that mech. I'd actually just pick off one of the arms before finishing it off.



That's fine, you'll still lose every time. Even the X-5 vs. the D.

To throw in some facts: I've been playing the X5 most of the day. The only light that managed to kill me 1 on 1 was a 3L. I've killed quite a few jenners in that time, and most of them were in fact the Jenner D, none of them were trial Jenners. I also won every 1 on 1 engagement with another Cicada, but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

The X5
Matches played: 42
Wins: 24
Losses: 18
Ratio: 1.33
Kills: 59
Deaths: 20
Ratio: 2.95
Damage done: 11.000
XP earned: 39.767
Time played: 04:01:54

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yes because your lone experiences are the end-all-be-all of MW:O.

If you do fine in your X-5, it's obviously better than every other light mech.

Congratulations.

I guess that's why we see so many X-5's in 8v8's and being used by the better units.

I apologize and bow to your greatness!