23 replies to this topic

[BoPop]

for me to choose a new mech chassis to master. check-mark off: ravens, spiders, hunchbacks, centurions, cicadas, jagers, catapults, highlanders and atlas. *blows a kazoo and rattles a maraca* and papa got a new mechbay with 20 mill cbills w/5kish MC just sitting there waiting.

i ask all ya'lls advice because even though i can look at the hard-points and do some basic figuring, those of you who've mastered the following mechs can let me know how the mechs ultimately feel and where they are strong and weak, or how you play them.

so, what's left:

~jenners- i know they are good light mechs but everyone and their brother has one. i like to be a lil different. (and they're ugly) dunno, i did buy and basic out the JR7-F but sold it and bought a DRG-5N (which i also bought, basic'd, and sold) noobish thing to do but i was waiting to see if i dig the game before throwing money at it; an early on mechbay issue. now i have 28 hehe

~commandos- something about the commandos really appeals to me. something about taking jenners down with commandos REALLY appeals to me. not sure i could make it happen though. jenners are awesome little boogers. but i have been in matches where some dudes have EMBODIED that commando and just owned. most of the time, they are cannon fodder, it almost makes me feel bad to kill them. Plus they look like Twiggy on Buck Rogers, adds to the guilt. Nonetheless, i have seen them WORKED and can be real game changers as well as any mech if done right. Lord knows I've been owned by them on more occasions than I care to admit. There are 4 variants, if i should pick them to master, which 1 should i stay away from?

~trebuchets- represents the last of the medium class for me, and i've seen them work magic, been their victims, eaten dirt because of them. a tempting mech. there are 5 variants, which 3 should i pick should you suggest them?

~dragons- don't see many dudes piloting these (adds to appeal). my RL bud who pulled me into MWO advised right away "Dragon, best mech in the game." but i think he's changing his mind. that's why i bought and basic'd the 5N, but i SUCKED with that thing. i was too: noob, didn't know the maps, just discovered how to level mechs up, didn't want to level up 2 more 'cuz that was a sad grind for me. I sold it and moved into light land. But i'm a little better now and maybe you can convince me it's a more viable chassis for me.

~cataphracts-this is another one of those "everyone and their brother" kind of mechs. and they represent the futt bucking ugliest of all mechs. i know they can be powerful. there are 4 which one should i stay away from should you suggest them?

~awesomes-well their name implies that they should be, uh, awesome. why don't i see too many of these fellas on the battlefield? couple of the variants look pretty cool. there are 5 which two should i stay away from?

~stalkers-*sigh* everyone and their brother. i know they too can be powerful, wouldn't see that many on the battlefield if they weren't (course most of them are ERPPC boats). there are 5, which two to avoid?

feedback always appreciated

GLHF

[Lostdragon]

So far I have played Awesomes, Cataphracts and Jenners so here is my take on those:

AWS 9M is the most fun, currently. I have run it with PPCs, LPLs, and LLs. The variety of builds is good and you can put a huge engine it it that makes it very fast if that is your thing. The 8Q is a gimped 9M, only energy hardpoints and 300 engine max. I sold mine after matering the chasis. The 8R is a missile boat, I used to play it with 4x ASRM6 and 2 LL and it was very fun. It is slow though because it too tops out at a 300 engine. I haven't played the T and V but they both have flexible loadouts due to their mixed energy and missile points.

Cataphracts are a lot of fun and easier than Awesomes imo. I play the Muromets, 3D, and 4X. Muromets is my favorite, I run it with 3 UAC5s and 3 SL. If you give up some ammo or armor you could use MLs of course. The 4X is not as good as I thought it would be. It has 4 ballistic hardpoints in the arms but there is not enough space for an AC20 on it so you are left with running multiple lighter weapons. I have run it with AC5s, LBX 10s, and 4 AC2s. The 3D is very good, it has a lot of flexibility due to its hardpoints and ability to mount large engines and JJs. I run it with 2 ERPPCs and a Gauss Rifle. Very fun and effective sniper but requires finesse as it is fragile with an XL.

Jenners... these are my new favorites. I just unlocked basics on the D, F, and K. The D is about to be a great light hunter with the BAP change. I run mine with a 300XL, 4x ML, 2x SSRM. It is currently weak against ECM lights, but again BAP changes that. The F packs the heaviest punch with 6x ML. The K is the worst variant and I only played it for 3 variant mastery.

The Jenner in the hands of a good pilot was the only light I feared after HSR in my heavier mechs. After playing them I see why. It was hard to adjust to at first and any error is likely going to be fatal but once I learned how to stick and move effectively I started having the most fun I have had in this game. There is nothing like carving up an assault as he tries desperately to target you. I started out not doing much damage but in my past 20 or so games I am doing 350-500 most of the time with some worse games and some better. In a win I usually get 1-2 kills and an assist on every other mech that dies.

[BoPop]

Lostdragon, on 20 May 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

So far I have played Awesomes, Cataphracts and Jenners so here is my take on those:

TYVM, Lostdragon!

[Chavette]

Get the awesome now, so months later, you can truly say you started from the bottom.

[BoPop]

Chavette, on 20 May 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Get the awesome now, so months later, you can truly say you started from the bottom.

hehe, are you saying they are your least desirable of the aforementioned mechs?

[Padic]

As a medium mech connoisseur, you should also consider holding out for the Blackjack!

[Escef]

Take a Dragon and pretend you're driving a '57 Chevy.

[EyeOne]

I am also in the same boat. I've done Commandos, Huncbacks, Trebs, Centurions, Cataphracts and Stalkers. Thinking about Spiders and Blackjacks next.

[RussianWolf]

Stalkers I have the 3f, 5m, 3h and Misery. I've heard really bad things of the 4s.

I've been able to do well in all of mine. The 4ERPPC with SSRM build is nice but not needed to do well. Currently running my Misery with 2 ERLL, 2 LPL and an SSRM (No gun) and again doing well.

Awesomes, I'm grinding for the 9m right now. Have the T and R. Think of it as a heavy heavy. Bit more speed than most Assaults but with a weapon load more like a Heavy. The PB supposedly can take a 400 engine and go crazy fast, I'm hoping the 9M is similar.

[Lostdragon]

RussianWolf, on 20 May 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Stalkers I have the 3f, 5m, 3h and Misery. I've heard really bad things of the 4s.

I've been able to do well in all of mine. The 4ERPPC with SSRM build is nice but not needed to do well. Currently running my Misery with 2 ERLL, 2 LPL and an SSRM (No gun) and again doing well.

Awesomes, I'm grinding for the 9m right now. Have the T and R. Think of it as a heavy heavy. Bit more speed than most Assaults but with a weapon load more like a Heavy. The PB supposedly can take a 400 engine and go crazy fast, I'm hoping the 9M is similar.

The 9M can take up to a 385 engine. Smurfy lists the engine size range for every variant.

[1453 R]

Dragons were my first 'Mechs, and the 'Mechs I've logged the most time in. I've spent a lot of time with Cicadas recently, as well as one-off Trebs, Ravens, and Jenners, but the Dragons are always there for me.

The usual advice with Dragons is to treat them like an outsized medium 'Mech, and that really does hold true. A Dragon with its stock engine (or an XL version of its stock engine, rather - good Dragons never use standards) and Speed Tweak hits 89kph, which is faster than any Cataphract or Catapult can manage. Up it to a 325 or 330 and you're right on a hundred klicks with enough weight left for more armor than people associate with Dragons and enough weapons to be dangerous once you've gotten where you're going to go. Heh...go all the way to a 350XL, like I did with my Flame back when I still had some shreds of my cadet bonus left, and you will motor.

The idea, at least in my experience, is that the Dragon is faster than other conventional brawling heavies (read: Cataphracts with standard engines) with either a roughly equivalent armament or roughly equivalent armor. Not both. I tend to split the difference a bit and carry around 350 armor on my Dragons, which is enough to let me get out of a scrape or two, but the whole "95% or dead" from skirmishing 'Mechs tends to apply to Dragons, as well. Your speed lets you get around the map to grab resource points in Conquest or respond to/threaten base caps, and you've got enough gun in a well-built Dragon to argue the point with most anything smaller than a Highlander if you have to.

If you have better aim than I do, however, and good skills with arm-aiming, there is no better devourer of light 'Mechs than a properly equipped Dragon. You're fast enough to get plenty of time on target with them, and more importantly your advantage in armor and firepower is decisive. A DRG-1N with two Streak launchers, a Beagle Active Probe (starting tomorrow, anyways), some large pulse lasers (or my own preference of a large laser and an AC/10) and a steady hand on the sticks will eat any light 'Mech that is not ready for it, and quite a few mediums as well. I'm not good enough yet to pull it off regularly, but even with my moderate-at-best aiming skills, my Dragons have pushed plenty of light 'Mechs off of Conquest points in their day.

The drawbacks, of course, are that Dragons are generally fragile for their size. They can carry more armor than the forums would have you think, but they tend to take a lot of CT hits and they do not work without an XL engine, leaving you vulnerable to ST kills as well. They also tend to be rather murderously expensive - most of my own Dragons required ferro as well as the usual endo and DHS, and you have to sink a lot of cash into the XL weights you need if you don't have them. Running them as my first 'Mechs out of the cadet period was harsh, mang >_<. They also do not really brawl worth a ship - Dragons are the biggest strike 'Mechs in the game and will please fans of strike gameplay, but brawl-oriented players should steer well clear.

As for variants, my recommendations are 1N and 1C, especially as you've already cleared out the 5N. If you need a third for whatever reason, the Flame is entertaining and set up well for medium lasers with a suite of arm-mounted energy hardpoints, but the Fang, in my eyes, mixes the best features of the 1C and 5N (high-mounted LT energy hardpoint for PPC sniping, dual LA-mounted medium laser hardpoints for duels) into a nice, juicy, C-BIll-earning machine. There are times I wish I'd gotten the Fang instead of the Flame, when I had the money to do so. Don't underestimate it.

Heh...on a less expansive note, my (minor) experiences with Trebuchets generally tells me they're ten-ton-lighter versions of same. I have a TBT-7M I've been running with the 320XL I got out of my CDA-3M, and with the jump jets and the high footspeed and the meesyles...it is a lot of fun to run around with. Or was, at least. I miss my old ALRM-15/2xSSRM-2 configuration, but LRMs in low counts are just too weak these days. Nevertheless, it's easily the most frequently fielded of my current batch of one-offs.

I intend to buy a TBT-5J shortly here - there's got to be something one can do with five arm-mounted energy hardpoints and a big missile launcher that can go 115 with jump jets! - and of course the TBT-3C is capable of being positively ridiculous with its engine cap. Unlike the CN9-D, it also has enough energy hardpoints to kick some rear at those speeds with medium lasers as well as SRM clusterbombings. I'd go so far as to say that the TBT-3C is a bit better at being a high speed XL-engine medium striker than the CN9-D, though the lack of shieldarm definitely hurts it.

Those are the two I've piloted. I don't have any direct experience with the others, but much like you I've seen black sorcerers in Commando cockpits do wicked, malevolent things, and my brother is almost shockingly vicious with his AWS-9M. And his 8R, back when SRMs weren't quite so candy-coated. Poor 8R...

Edited by 1453 R, 20 May 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[BoPop]

Padic, on 20 May 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

As a medium mech connoisseur, you should also consider holding out for the Blackjack!

noted, good sir.

Escef, on 20 May 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Take a Dragon and pretend you're driving a '57 Chevy.

hehe, interesting. noted.

EyeOne, on 20 May 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Thinking about // Blackjacks next.

hmm, this might not be a bad idea... unless i'm pursuaded!

RussianWolf, on 20 May 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I've heard really bad things of the 4s.//Think of it as a heavy heavy. Bit more speed than most Assaults but with a weapon load more like a Heavy. The PB supposedly can take a 400 engine and go crazy fast

interesting, awesome is also tempting cuz so few play it, it seems. thanks!

1453 R, on 20 May 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

//treat them like an outsized medium 'Mech, and that really does hold true. A Dragon with its stock engine (or an XL version of its stock engine, rather - good Dragons never use standards) //left for more armor than people associate with Dragons and enough weapons to be dangerous once you've gotten where you're going to go. //The idea, at least in my experience, is that the Dragon is faster than other conventional brawling heavies (read: Cataphracts with standard engines) with either a roughly equivalent armament or roughly equivalent armor. Not both. // there is no better devourer of light 'Mechs than a properly equipped Dragon. You're fast enough to get plenty of time on target with them, and more importantly your advantage in armor and firepower is decisive.//but they tend to take a lot of CT hits and they do not work without an XL engine//Dragons are the biggest strike 'Mechs in the game and will please fans of strike gameplay, but brawl-oriented players should steer well clear//my recommendations are 1N and 1C//a TBT-5J shortly here - there's got to be something one can do with five arm-mounted energy hardpoints and a big missile launcher that can go 115 with jump jets!

eloquent. you make a good argument for the dragon and an approach to it, and it's drawbacks. that treb does sound fun. good stuff. i thank ya for your input.

anyone else got anything to add? i'm mclovin' it. choochoo, the train pullin' off shortly. papas getting too much excess xp, what a waste of premium time! gotta pick a mech quick!

[Soy]

BoPop, on 20 May 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

~cataphracts-this is another one of those "everyone and their brother" kind of mechs. and they represent the futt bucking ugliest of all mechs. i know they can be powerful. there are 4 which one should i stay away from should you suggest them?

Yeah right, cataphracts look boss as hell in any setting, any environment -



Best looking mech currently in the game, easily.

[BoPop]

Soy, on 20 May 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Yeah right, cataphracts look boss as hell in any setting, any environment -



Best looking mech currently in the game, easily.

haha

[ivr56]

BoPop, on 20 May 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

~trebuchets- represents the last of the medium class for me, and i've seen them work magic, been their victims, eaten dirt because of them. a tempting mech. there are 5 variants, which 3 should i pick should you suggest them?


~cataphracts-this is another one of those "everyone and their brother" kind of mechs. and they represent the futt bucking ugliest of all mechs. i know they can be powerful. there are 4 which one should i stay away from should you suggest them?

~awesomes-well their name implies that they should be, uh, awesome. why don't i see too many of these fellas on the battlefield? couple of the variants look pretty cool. there are 5 which two should i stay away from?

GLHF

Cataphracts:
3D - Jump jetting brawler is fun as hell
1X - Good energy platform
4X - Run of the mill ballistic boat

Trebuhcets:
5J - Great energy platform to act as fire support that is fast and highly manuverable with jump jets. I run 2 large laser, 3 medium laser with great effect. Runs a XL300 for 106kph
7M - Excellent hit and run striker with jump jets. I rock 3 medium 2 SRM6 + Artemis and max engine for 115kph
3C - Fun harasser. Runs 139kph with ST and a XL390. 4 mediums 2 streak 2

Awesomes:
9M - Go like a stabbed rat in a 80 ton mech
http://mwomercs.com/...-i-love-aws-9m/

[General Taskeen]

All awesome's and dragon's are c-bill boosts to the enemy.

[MonkeyCheese]

Commandos and the Deaths Knell, some of the best times ive had in game have been with the Deaths Knell, and its a decent price for something other commandos cant do.

[tayhimself]

General Taskeen, on 20 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

All awesome's and dragon's are c-bill boosts to the enemy.

QFT don't get either.

Cataphracts are fun, flexible, and good. You can make them go fast and be fragile, or go slow and hang out in a brawl. There are multiple 1X and 3D builds that are effective, different, and good. The 4x is good if you're good with ballistics, the 2x is fine if you're not. Both the CTF-4x and 2x are decidedly worse than the other 2 cbill phracts.

Have you considered Jagers and Catapults? Both have at least 2 distinct variants that are fun to play.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

General Taskeen, on 20 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

All awesome's and dragon's are c-bill boosts to the enemy.

Maybe in 8 man land, but with ELO you'll just hit a plateu and stay relevent at your level.

[1453 R]

Anyone who thinks a Cataphract can move fast has spent more time on the fat end of the scale than he likely should. A Cataphract with a maxed-out XL engine can move decently...but is still slower than a Dragon at stock speeds. And is also an Xl-engine Cataphract, which isn't enormously more durable than an XL engine Dragon, except the Dragon is likely to have fifteen or twenty klicks on the Cataphract.

And now, for an interesting note.

Assume for a moment than one chooses to pilot a Cataphract with effectively maxed-out armor and a standard engine, for the sake of brawling. I have no idea what the prefered standard engine for Cataphracts is, but I'm going to assume a 300 rating because it tends to be the most efficient in terms of weight to speed to heat sink slots. So. A Cataphract with maxed-out armor, a standard 300 brawling engine, and the typical default endo structure and DHS upgrades has:

-432 armor
-a 76.4 kph top speed w/Tweak.
-28 tons of free weight for equipment

Now. Dragons can select from a wide variety of engine weights, and for sake of comparison we'll go to either extreme - a 300XL and a 350XL. I actually prefer either a 320 or 330, depending on what I'm doing/how many heat sinks I need...but that's me.

With a 300XL, and the exact same formula applied to it as the Cataphract (endo and DHS, no ferro, highest armor value which results in even tonnage), a Dragon has:

-400 armor
-89.1 kph top speed w/Tweak
-29 tons of free weight for equipment.

Hmm...it may just be me, but it kinda looks like the Dragon has more weight for armaments and equipment than the Cataphract does. Amazing! The Dragon trades the brawling durability of the Cataphract's typical standard engine, and a ton of armor, for an extra ton of equipment and nearly thirteen extra klicks an hour movement speed. Which, by the way, is far more armament than most people will attribute to Dragons.

Try it again, with a 350XL this time:

-400 armor (again)
-104 kph top speed w/Tweak
-22.50 tons of free weight for equipment.

The Cataphract has definitely pulled ahead in terms of armament now - that 350XL is not a small piece of equipment. But we are now 27.6 klicks an hour faster than the brawler, and with enough weight of armament in a careful design to still carry some nice, heavy weaponry. Which can get around the map and deal its damage where it's needed, significantly faster than the Cataphract can. That's more than a third again the Cataphract's speed, in exchange for only four and a half tons of equipment.

Trying it my way, with a 330XL, gives us back a ton and a half of equipment in exchange for six klicks' groundspeed. You do miss the extra little bit of motor, which is why my Flame still carries its 350XL with pride, but that extra ton and a half will, for instance, let us mount a Beagle on our 1N and munch up lights with dual Streak launchers. Or stuff in an extra ton of Gauss ammo somewhere - two, if you shave off another half-ton of armor.

Really...all the folks who say that Dragons are under-everything'd, as is so common, are seriously underestimating the capabilities of the chassis. You can either be faster than a Cataphract with the same weight of armament, or you can be a lot faster than a Cataphract with a somewhat lighter, but still perfectly respectable, armament.

...or you could wait for Piranha to take the nerfhammer out of missiles' collective rectums tomorrow (hopefully), buy a CPLT-A1, and make the entire argument moot. But that'd be a douchewhale move, so don't do it.