45 replies to this topic

[pencilboom]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

and sure it gives me time to switch positions, so what? i go up another hill and same story

oh man..you're helpless aren't you? one of the idea to switch to another sniping position is to catch the ac/2 jager by surprise so that you can salvo him to death with er ppc's before he even realizes you're there..not that by saying switching to another sniping position means the ac/2 jager won't know where you are and thus simply going to ignore you the rest of the match..

[MonkeyCheese]

The AC2 is fine and does not need a nerf, it is the chain fire mechanic that needs a reworking.

[HereticalPsycho]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

it goes well against dedicated sniper builds, i don't care what you say because i know this to be true from experience.
dedicated sniper builds means NOT the ac2 dakka. the ac2 jager is NOT A DEDICATED SNIPER.

First off you are a hundred percent right the AC/2 Jager is not a dedicated sniper... Its more of a bane of precision aiming at all ranges. As such it fires fast, fires far and hits about as hard as a spit wad (compared to most other boated weapons). I don't really see the issue, you have your dedicated build the jager has it's. it counters yours you counter others, such is life. And judging from most of the AC threads I've read the ac/2 cant really handle any nerfs without joining MG's Its already on the Amusement Tier does it need to go lower?

[One Medic Army]

You know in the real world snipers typically fire from a concealed position, and then move before they're shot in return.
This is the advantage of high burst damage sniper builds like multi-PPC.
You fire once or twice, then go find another vantage point while your heat goes down.

Standing still sky-lining yourself is not the proper way to snipe.

[TOGSolid]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

no it doesnt make it any less painful, but it does make it less painful when you're 1350 meters away, because max range is like 1300. then the ppc shot explodes mid air.

and sure it gives me time to switch positions, so what? i go up another hill and same story
i already posted this on balance, we'll see what comes of it.
that's all i have to say

So you're buttmad that there is a counter to sniping that isn't more sniping.

El
Oh
El

AC/2s are perfectly fine. They do solid damage and have great range with the drawback of not doing precise damage and generating asstons of heat. Suppressive fire is what really makes them shine and nerfing that defeats the point of the weapon.

Also, you really should learn to snipe better. Standing on top of a hill and making your silhouette really obvious isn't smart at all.

@The OP: Macros aren't an issue at all. I don't use a Macro but can replicate the effect via intelligent weapon grouping. Macros do not give an advantage in the slightest in MWO.

Edited by TOGSolid, 20 May 2013 - 11:01 PM.

[Nauht]

There we have it folks. The counter to ppc boating and sniping meta has been found!

Simply take an ac/2 - guaranteed to hit over 2k away and the rapid reload means you'll out damage a ppc/gr sniper every time.

Disclaimer: provided every shot hits, you're dumb enough to stand still, dumb enough to keep sniping in the same location and aren't quick enough to press fire quick enough with those 3-4 ppcs grouped.

Edited by Nauht, 20 May 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Nauht, on 20 May 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

There we have it folks. The counter to ppc boating and sniping meta has been found!

Simply take an ac/2 - guaranteed to hit over 2k away and the rapid reload means you'll out damage a ppc/gr sniper every time.

Disclaimer: provided every shot hits, you're dumb enough to stand still, dumb enough to keep sniping in the same location and aren't quick enough to press fire quick enough with those 3-4 ppcs grouped.

Must be 18, void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply, not available in all states.

Edited by TOGSolid, 20 May 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Nauht]

Rofl. I concede defeat.

[Sable Dove]

Here's the thing: I can do pretty much the exact same thing with a 3-button mouse. Group 1: 2 AC2s, Group 2: 2 other AC2s, Group 3: All AC2s. 1, 2, hold 3, you're now doing pretty much the same thing as the macro.

Hell, if you can click fast enough, you can do it with a 2-button mouse.
Group 1: All AC2s on chainfire. Group 2: All AC2s.
111111, hold 2.

UAC/5 is the only place where the macro is kinda cheap, as it allows you to get the maximum DPS with zero risk of jamming. To be honest, they should lower the jam chance, and make the recycle time the same as the AC/5, so that in order to get the higher DPS out of the UAC/5, you have to risk jamming.

[MustrumRidcully]

MasterGoa, on 20 May 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Hi all.

I understand that PGI is not resisting people using
external software to make a 4-5-6 AC2 jager shoot
at an astronomical rate, causing heavy damage in just
a few seconds.

Are there plan to make chain fire rate adjustable or
counter those with a longer AC2 reload time?

I would have no issue with AC2 staying the same,
but some of these mouse macros are kinda rediculous...

Please advise.

Step 1) Equip 5 AC/2.
Step 2) Set all 5 AC/2 to weapon group one, and then assign each AC/2 a seperate weapon group in the groups 2-6.
Step 3) When you have a target in sight, roll your fingers over 2-6.
Step 4) Keep weapon group 1 pressed.
Optional Step 5) Watch your heat scale climb rapidly and you overheat in less than 10 second.

Explanation:
Step 3) ensures that the AC/2 are fired seperately with a small time delay between them. This means they come off cooldown at different times.
Step 4) ensures that each AC/2 is fired the moment it comes off cooldown, retaining the time delay between the AC/2s and ensuring the "Machine Gun" like effect.

As far as I know ,there isn't no way to do this without setting up the weapon groups, even with macros. There i sno feature in the game that allows you to fire individual weapons seperately. (one could try to set up a macro that also resets the weapon groups on the fly, but that sounds very complicated to set up, and might be error-prone.)

[MustrumRidcully]

The Cheese, on 20 May 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Sure, just like I know from experience that being in an AC2 Jegermech doesn't make taking 4 PPCs to the face any less painful than usual.

My Jagermech has a 0 more (and, an e less and an a more?), but it still hurts. But I find it more satisfying to shoot back, once I get them in my range.

[Tennex]

the AC2 macro doens't make the AC2 fire faster than the game allows.

All it does is keep all of the AC2s on cooldown to optimize the effects(chain firing actually makes the AC2 slower than it fires).


if a person spends all that tonnage than he should be able to use the weapons at its full effect.

Edited by Tennex, 21 May 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Tennex]

Sable Dove, on 20 May 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Here's the thing: I can do pretty much the exact same thing with a 3-button mouse. Group 1: 2 AC2s, Group 2: 2 other AC2s, Group 3: All AC2s. 1, 2, hold 3, you're now doing pretty much the same thing as the macro.

Hell, if you can click fast enough, you can do it with a 2-button mouse.
Group 1: All AC2s on chainfire. Group 2: All AC2s.
111111, hold 2.

UAC/5 is the only place where the macro is kinda cheap, as it allows you to get the maximum DPS with zero risk of jamming. To be honest, they should lower the jam chance, and make the recycle time the same as the AC/5, so that in order to get the higher DPS out of the UAC/5, you have to risk jamming.

thers a even better way of doing it.

1.) put all AC2s in button 1.
2.) put one AC2 in button2, second AC2 in button 3, etc etc.
3.) Fire buttons 2-3-etc. rhythmically one at a time, until you get to the last one.
4.) after getting to the last one hold down button one.


it sounds more complicated than it seems. its very intuitive and works similar to the macro. but you have more crazy options using this method, you can have your AC2 fire at any rythem you like. for example 2AC2s, at a time. or 3 AC2 and then 1 AC2. etc etc.

Edited by Tennex, 21 May 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

did you miss something on my post? normally what i do is take a place up high on one of those crystal formations.
it's usually ok because i can shoot all types of mechs from there, stalkers, highlanders,* 6 out of 10 games it's a great spot to be in. and **then sometimes i get those ac2 jagers and i get the short end of the stick, i still think it's unbalanced that one of the fastest weapons is the longest reaching
i return fire when i can sure but my damage is not constant either. so in those 3 seconds er ppc is reloading i'm getting dakkadakka to the face.

so let me guess in your mind there's no place for a ER PPC user to stand on a hill and snipe right?
you want the ac2 to trump them every time
even when popping head in and out you're still not getting the better deal

it's not even supposed to be a sniper mech, but **** it. somehow your dakkadakka snipes better than the sniper

Lets look at the math.
*You rule from on high 6:10 matches
and
**get owned 4:10 matches.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

[MrZakalwe]

The only reason this problem isn't more obvious is that there are no assault mechs that can boat AC2s and with the focus on DPS rather than burst they are very much an assault mech weapon; Jagermechs and to a lesser degree Cataphracts don't quite have the staying power to make the most use out of them.

[Atak Snajpera]

I use autohotkey macro for my jaggers (4xAC2 and 5xAC5)

Here is my script for 5xAC5

#InstallMouseHook
#InstallKeyBDHook
MButton::
while GetKeyState("MButton","P")
{
send {1 down}
sleep 100
send {1 up}
send {2 down}
sleep 100
send {2 up}
send {3 down}
sleep 100
send {3 up}
send {4 down}
sleep 100
send {4 up}
send {5 down}
sleep 100
send {5 up}
}

Middle mouse button activates DAKKA DAKKA

IMPORTANT NOTE!
AUTOHOTKEY MUST BE RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR because game also runs in elevated mode.

I'm lazy so I've exported my two scripts to standalone .exe

Edited by Atak Snajpera, 21 May 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Triple Patte]

To the "crystal formation sniper guy"

Sooo, you tell me you go up there while the enemy is 2km away and wait in plain view for them to come close. You sir, deserve to get cored much more than you do.

Do what everyone else does. Stay in cover until you have enemies in range and THEN come on top of the crystal formation and fire.

If you go out of cover early and don't have the longest ranged weapon in the game guess what, you'll be hit. You won't see me waiting in the open for someone to get into range or I'll get shot to pieces.

[Phoenix Gray]

The Cheese, on 20 May 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Firing AC2s one at a time in rapid succession does not do more damage than firing them all at once. Many macros aren't perfectly timed to fire the first gun again as soon as the cooldown is up, meaning that they actually do less DPS than if the player were simply to alpha them and hold the trigger down.

Rapid firing also causes the damage to spread around the target's chassis more than if they just alpha them all because the timing that they strike the target will be staggered.

Heat does not dissipate at a faster rate when rapid firing AC2s than it does when alpha firing.

The one and only advantage of using a rapid fire macro is the screen shake that's caused at the target.

There's all that, and then there's the fact that people with 4-5 button mice can do it without any macro at all. You don't even need precision timing. Just roll your fingers across the buttons and hold them down.

So let's summarise:
Rapid firing AC2s does not provide a DPS advantage over alpha firing.
There is a degradation of accuracy when using a rapid fire macro.
There is no heat advantage to using a rapid fire macro.
Screen shake is the only advantage.
The same effect can be achieved without a macro.


Having said all that, I agree that the chain fire rate for the AC2 does need to be looked at. It takes way too long to fire the next gun if you hold the trigger down and rapidly clicking does not make it happen any faster.

You missed a point: DAYYAM it's fun to watch!

[Zyllos]

MonkeyCheese, on 20 May 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

The AC2 is fine and does not need a nerf, it is the chain fire mechanic that needs a reworking.

Actually, the AC/2 needs a buff in the heat department. It needs to be equal to the AC/5, not more than the AC/5. And the AC/5 needs it's RoF increased or the UAC/5's RoF decreased.

But yes, the chain fire mechanic should be changed in some way.

Edited by Zyllos, 21 May 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Petroshka]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

who said moving target, i mean when you're on top of those rocks on tourmaline, tryng to snipe with your er ppc, and waiting for the recycle time, you're getting hammered by ac2 at 2000 meters non stop.

and you know what? that's bull****

I now love AC/2 Macroers. Please, more AC2 macros.