183 replies to this topic

[Rushin Roulette]

The module is great... but not really logical. A seismic sensor on a single mech shold not be able to pinpoint an enemy. Theoretically it should only work when the mech carrying the sensor is stationary (Seismic sensor has continual ground contact) and should only be able to show the direction, movement direction and intensity of the seismic disturbance (Size/Speed of the mech and direction of movement through multiple ping sequences).

What it should not be able to do, is to pinpoint a mech as you are missing a second triangulation point for this.

[stjobe]

It is ridiculously OP.

It really, really, REALLY needs to be toned down severely, if not removed altogether.

There's so many things wrong with it, but I'll just list a few:
* Range is way too far, 400m? That means I have to get inside it with my light 'mech's weapon range of 270m.
* It's a wall hack, as Vassago correctly states. It sees through *everything*.
* It makes for worse gameplay, as you cannot out-flank or surprise a 'mech with this module.

Finally, one of the most valuable skills to have in MWO is situational awareness - knowing who and what is where. This module removes that skill completely, giving perfect situational awareness at all times.

Get rid of it.

[Shakespeare]

stjobe, on 24 May 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

* It's a wall hack, as Vassago correctly states. It sees through *everything*.

Oh god, I'm agreeing with Vassago on something.
I feel dirty all over.

[arkani]

Meirleach, on 21 May 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

I think 400meters upgraded should be the MAX range. My idea with it, is that assault mechs can be heard from longer distances. Just a quick example of what I'm thinking about. Assault mechs(400m heavy and loud) Heavy mechs(300m) Medium mechs(200m) and Light mechs (100m)

^^^THIS^^^^

[Shakespeare]

"I think 400meters upgraded should be the MAX range. My idea with it, is that assault mechs can be heard from longer distances. Just a quick example of what I'm thinking about. Assault mechs(400m heavy and loud) Heavy mechs(300m) Medium mechs(200m) and Light mechs (100m)"

Oooh... I actually like that. It's mitigates the absurdity of the assault sneak, while keeping lights at an advantage.

Changed my mind. This sounds cool, and I want it.

Edited by Shakespeare, 24 May 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Shakespeare, on 24 May 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

"I think 400meters upgraded should be the MAX range. My idea with it, is that assault mechs can be heard from longer distances. Just a quick example of what I'm thinking about. Assault mechs(400m heavy and loud) Heavy mechs(300m) Medium mechs(200m) and Light mechs (100m)"

Oooh... I actually like that. It's mitigates the absurdity of the assault sneak, while keeping lights at an advantage.

Changed my mind. This sounds cool, and I want it.

A change in distance won't fix it. You can still 'see' everything through terrain, other mechs, walls... If you make assault mechs easier to pick up, what does that accomplish? It needs to be re-thought completely, sad to say.

It's a really great module. I like how it feels and works, but it's completely broken to have aliens motion trackers in a game like this, where even the fast mechs are slow.

[John MatriX82]

I've tried it only for one match and.. yes, RIP brawling and flanking in few words. It will replace target info gathering as my secondary module for the stalkers, it's too useful.

Imho it shouln't be toned down in range (maybe full upgrade should be 300m max, not 400), but it should be nerfed to a some sort of sonar thing.

Think of the Aliens' movement tracker, but with slower and seldom pings, let's say 1 every 5 seconds. By this you may know that there's an enemy incoming, but you wouldn't have the extremely detailed resolution we have now.

Right now you can guess which kind of enemy (if it's light or assault) you've inbound and the resolution is so high you can track every step of the enemy mech. With a higher ping/sonar of 5", you wouldn't have this informational gathering and you may also miss completely the little red ping in the radar or you won't be able to guess the correct direction nor the entity/weight of what approaches. You may also miss totally static targets if they get caught in a still position.

EDIT: without accounting the thrilling factor of seeing first one red spot and then 3 or 4 of them without knowing what's coming

Edited by John MatriX82, 24 May 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[Chou Senwan]

If you _do_ feel the urge to nerf Seismic (which I hope you don't; I think it's sweet now), perhaps consider switching from "ping the enemy's location on the minimap" to "highlight a pie chart-esque area on the minimap, showing which direction the enemy is, but not its range."

I like this idea, though. I wonder if there should be some cue -- audible or otherwise -- that an enemy nearby is using a thumper.

I've taken to calling Seismic pings "wormsign."

Actually, this is probably WAY too niche, but might there be some way to fool seismic sensors, if you know an enemy has them? Like, shoot an AC 20 into the wall or ground? Or deploy a UAV-esque wheeled robot that thumps into the ground (and sprays ECM interference)?

[GateKeeper York]

Quick question - I know it is not quite the same but I often listen very closely for extra footstep when I am around and often can tell some has just appeared behind me. What is the sound range of foot steps compared to the seismic sensor?

[Thoummim]

As a former tank pilot I always found the 25 to 100tons ultra stealth ninja stupid. A MBT can be heard kilometers away quite easily (not the same thing ? a seismic sensor basically register the sound travelling in the earth instead of in the air), so I gladly welcome this change it made my brawling and flanking manoeuver so much easier. Yes you can use it offensively.

Well a little to easy in real life you will know the approximate location of a MBT by the sound but the exact location and number will still be unknown.

My 2 cents :
All mech must have it by default I think it can really add to the gameplay.
The module should work like sensor range 1st unlock 300m 2nd unlock 400m.
Make the damn thing more approxymate, I should now someone is behind that ridge but I shouldn't know where he will pop.
Make bigger mech "negate" a part of the sound of smaller mech.
EDIT : There is a friendly/ennemy filter on the sensor now I think it can be used, lets say an ennemy light is near a friendly assault the seismic sensor should interpreat both signature as one, so the ennemy light dont show on the minimap.

My english isn't great I hope you understand.

Edited by Thoummim, 24 May 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Halo Combat Evolved Radar Consumable

no thanks this needs to be removed, refund the people who spent GXP, rework idea entirely.

[Mechteric]

I like the inclusion of it in the game and want it to stay, the problem really is just the range is so high at 400m that it just gives too much awareness. Either it should be brought in to 150m/250m (basic/advanced), or smaller mechs should have less detection range (25 ton = 25% range, 50 ton = 50%, etc). Or perhaps both of these together.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 24 May 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[TexAce]

Seismic sensors are way too OP.

I don't wanna explain why for the 100th time, just give some ideas what could be done.

By the way, before I start, I'm a heavy/med pilot, with only the AWS and one Stalker as assaults, and don't have nor will I ever have light mechs.

Ok now my ideas (and I don't mean to apply ALL of them at once, just ideas).

• Make it switchable
  
• Make other mechs see you too when it's active
  
• Disable it when Jump Jetting
  
• Disable it when the own mech is moving
  
• Just tint the area where resonance is picked up slightly red on the minimap, no dot representing a mech, when many mechs -> stronger red and wider radius
  
• Make the radius on the minimap bigger (no dots), make it red and also pick up friendly mechs. Means when an enemy is near a friendly one you cant really tell it apart
  
• Lighter mechs shouldn't be spotted at all when not 'running' (over 100kph perhaps)
  
• Let only light mechs equip them (after all the nerfs they have to go through it would add to their scout/information warfare role)
  
• Don't make them a module, but a hardpoint system, which you have to place on the legs, 1-2 tons albeit with the functionality we have now
  
• This one is hard to code: make it only work (like they do now but with 1500m range) if at least 2 others on your team have one and only inbetween these friendly mechs (like celular triangulation)
  
• Make another module as a counter which you can launch like an UAV but which stays at the ground and gives out resonnance to mislead the enemy (make it a turret, too).

Will add more some time.





Taken from here: http://mwomercs.com/...r-improvements/

Edited by TexAss, 24 May 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[Minoxen]

Yes it is currently too powerful.

My feedback for recommendations.

While the sensors range is up for debate I think the main thing that could be used to tone the system down is the number of reports it sends back.

Perhaps reduce the frequency of the updates to a lower volume. That way you can get an update that an enemy was in that spot 5 seconds ago, but if they have stopped moving etc by the time your sensor checks again then you'd still only have limited information instead of the flood of data that it is now. (Think of old time Radar how you have to wait for the dish to make its full cycle to update again and display the info.)

A combination of this and another users idea that your mech must be standing still would be an interesting dynamic, except when standing still your sensor updates more regularly with vibration data and while moving it suffers a large penalty to the report time and possibly the accuracy of the data.


This sensor also opens the door for vibration drones etc. A light might pack 2-4 drones that he can drop off and fool your team into believing they have been flanked by a full lance instead of just a light.

Edited by Minoxen, 24 May 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[danneskold]

Rushin Roulette, on 24 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

The module is great... but not really logical. A seismic sensor on a single mech shold not be able to pinpoint an enemy. Theoretically it should only work when the mech carrying the sensor is stationary (Seismic sensor has continual ground contact) and should only be able to show the direction, movement direction and intensity of the seismic disturbance (Size/Speed of the mech and direction of movement through multiple ping sequences).

What it should not be able to do, is to pinpoint a mech as you are missing a second triangulation point for this.

I was thinking this same thing - in fact, i would propose that it should be part of C&C interface, or a sort - a way for mechs to talk to each other. This encourages teamwork. Basically, the more mechs, the more accurate the point. However, you miss one point above - you have to have 3 to properly triangulate a seismic point. You could do two if you assume the base has a reference point as well, but technically, with only 2 mechs, it would tell you there is a signal somewhere between us or off to the side of us, and signal is closer to mech A or B. With 3 points, I think, you get the fix. I might be wrong here - but the principal is the same - better with more ( like GPS - better accuracy with more satellites) and it should degrade as you loose mechs - minor until you are down to 3 (or maybe 2) but useless solo - should just say there is a signal. Further - it doesnt really make sense that it filters out your owm team mechs! that would have to be checked vs. other position processing, like local sensors, etc....and therefore be confusing when under ECM affect, potentially. Also - I agree - should not work when you yourself are moving.

I like the concept, I think it can be improved as noted above. the ability for a solo mech to see all signals, even when moving...it is the best module around, esp for lights and fast mediums. So good, you shouldnt leave base without it...which generally means its overpowered.

[Bloody Moon]

My god you people... Why on earth do you think a mech couldn't triangulate another mech?

If we assume there are 3 sensors on each foot of the mech attached to the central computer also known as the module Seismic Sensor then we can safely say it is quite realistic to pick up tremors in the ground while moving slowly and filtering out the waves the mech creates.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 24 May 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[MavRCK]

I was playing with the seismic sensor some more and I realized something:

I had stopped listening to the environmental sounds for footsteps, shots, etc... and I had stopped looking left and right every 3-5 seconds to watch my sides and the different paths around me...

In just a day, seismic sensor removed a huge part of what made a good pilot great: situational awareness.

[Chavette]

OP, no question.
Its simply wrong that I can chase a jenner through a city while he is trying to lose me zig-zagging, while I just cut corners in my phract just because I see through the walls.

My free2read intellectual property on what could be changed:

• Hit two birds with one stone and put a sneak mode in MWO. The less of its top speed % a mech goes, its range of detection will decrease, with 100m minimum cap.
  
• Don't change it at all and make it an active component. 20 second sensing, 1 minute cooldown, so you could actually lose someone if you maneuver smartly in a faster mech.
  
• Make it a sensor instead of an X-ray: every 4th step gets registered. You will know something is up, but your positional info wont be 0 day as it currently is.
  
• It could work as a submarine radar, with a cool radar animation. It would scan on the radar clockwise. Similar to the previous point but lets you put in some awesome visuals.

If you like it you can vote here.

Edited by Chavette, 24 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Mrllamaface]

Also I have some maths for why the advanced seismic is poorly implemented.

When you double the radius of the circle you quadruple the area of a circle. So in effect advanced seismic sensor is four times better than regular seismic sensor.

Also perhaps this is a glitch but it seems to me that the sensor works while you are in the air is this supposed to happen?

[TOGSolid]

Bloody Moon, on 24 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

My god you people... Why on earth do you think a mech couldn't triangulate another mech?

If we assume there are 3 sensors on each foot of the mech attached to the central computer also known as the module Seismic Sensor then we can safely say it is quite realistic to pick up tremors in the ground while moving slowly and filtering out the waves the mech creates.

There's the rub though: "while moving slowly." The entire problem with the Seismic Sensor is that it works too well. Your mech moving too fast should absolutely interfere with it (maybe the smaller the mech the less interference you get at faster speeds). The other option should be that if an enemy mech is going slow enough (again, lighter mechs should be able to go faster without tripping the sensor) they won't show up. This would fix the module and add a great element of skill too it. Right now a mech just turning in place will show up on your radar and that's ******** ridiculous.

Quote

It could work as a submarine radar, with a cool radar animation. It would scan on the radar clockwise. Similar to the previous point but lets you put in some awesome visuals.

I already envision it as comparable to a towed array style system which is why having your size and speed == noise made == how well you show up on the sensor would fit really well.

Edited by TOGSolid, 24 May 2013 - 12:07 PM.