143 replies to this topic

[The Schwartz]

"LRMs are actually worth their weight again. It must be so strange for people who have never played MWO while LRMs were viable. Welcome to real mechwarrior, a tactical thinking man's shooter. Adapt or die."

15 minute matchs on small maps with 8v8.... the "real mechwarrior" games could go hours. Ballance was not really there in terms of skill because there was just so many one hit kill weapons. LongToms, ARROW IV, you ran into ammo issues because of the vast amount of mechs in the field but, if you think locking onto a mech and hitting the win button is tactical.. Well.. I have to be at least somewhat polite but, that's complete garbage. People just want their win button until they get bored of hitting win and move on to something else. Of course these are the people who'll spend 1000's on all the "win" stuff to feel like they accomplished something. Meh, I'm just going to keep spamming because this is what you want and this is "tactical".

[OvenRude]

Why change so many variables in one patch? You increase damage by 29%, increase speed by 20%, and totally change the flight path. It just makes no sense from a development and balance standpoint to change that many factors all at the same time. Change one, observe, and adjust accordingly.

Edited by OvenRude, 21 May 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[IdolElite]

The Schwartz, on 21 May 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

"LRMs are actually worth their weight again. It must be so strange for people who have never played MWO while LRMs were viable. Welcome to real mechwarrior, a tactical thinking man's shooter. Adapt or die."

15 minute matchs on small maps with 8v8.... the "real mechwarrior" games could go hours. Ballance was not really there in terms of skill because there was just so many one hit kill weapons. LongToms, ARROW IV, you ran into ammo issues because of the vast amount of mechs in the field but, if you think locking onto a mech and hitting the win button is tactical.. Well.. I have to be at least somewhat polite but, that's complete garbage. People just want their win button until they get bored of hitting win and move on to something else. Of course these are the people who'll spend 1000's on all the "win" stuff to feel like they accomplished something. Meh, I'm just going to keep spamming because this is what you want and this is "tactical".

I don't actually use LRMs on most of my mechs, and i don't use my LRM boat at all anymore. The majority of the games i played today I had no lrms or maybe a single lrm 10 or 20 and yet i still did just fine most of the time. And the times i didn't it was because i either did something stupid and got myself killed or my team just got rolled over for various reasons. All I'm trying to say is that if you are willing to play the game how it should be played you can overcome any of the OP builds in most situations using a build you enjoy. I primarily brawl for the record. And yes i end up 1st or 2nd in most of the games I'm in. And to be honest I'm really not even one of the greats at this game, i never could make it onto the leader boards in any of the VS the world challenges.

As has been pointed out the DEVs stated that LRM drop points are a bit skewed. Regardless of this you can play other builds in the game currently if you play intelligently. Furthermore, LRMs are hardly an easy mode button, even at this the 2nd best of times (LRM artemis scorpion tail anyone) LRMs are missing more than they are hitting.

So yes, adapt or die. Someone has to lose each round and if you aren't willing to learn how to overcome obstacles in this game I really hope you aren't on my team because it's going to be you and we will all go down with you.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

I think what they are really doing is testing be4 "live". They are testing min and max. Trying to find out what can be Op by how much and how much it will be exploited by the community. It makes for good numbers, just not happy campers.

[Dirus Nigh]

The end dive is a little steeper now, but it is not the 90 degree dive that it was when the devs introduced the last change to artemis. The damage level is good, I hoped they would try 1 point but .9 is working well. The flight speed is good. Now the target actually has to respond to the missile warning instead of stand still and fire off a few volleys of their own, eat a sandwich, drink a beer then finally move into cover.

There are going to be a lot of LRM carriers right now. The patch was today, so every one who had an LRM mech is brushing the dust off of them to check out the new changes. By next week things will have evened out. Don't worry your sixty point alpha PPC stalker is still usable, as well as the poptarting highlander, and cataphract 3D.

THe best thing about the change is that a single LRM is a viable option again. My centurion and trebuchet missile systems are no longer a weakness.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 21 May 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[OvenRude]

Dirus Nigh, on 21 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

The end dive is a little steeper now, but it is not the 90 degree dive that it was when the devs introduced the last change to artemis. The damage level is good, I hoped they would try 1 point but .9 is working well. The flight speed is good. Now the target actually has to respond to the missile warning instead of stand still and fire off a few volleys of their own, eat a sandwich, drink a beer then finally move into cover.

There are going to be a lot of LRM carriers right now. The patch was today, so every one who had an LRM mech is brushing the dust off of them to check out the new changes. By next week things will have evened out. Don't worry your sixty point alpha PPC stalker is still usable, as well as the poptarting highlander, and cataphract 3D.

THe best thing about the change is that a single LRM is a viable option again. My centurion and trebuchet missile systems are no longer a weakness.

The difference being that LRM boats can hit you even when fully behind cover. Straight up hugging buildings that are twice as tall as the mech. Show me a PPC sniper that can do that. 2 salvos from a pair of LRM boats and my mech was fully critically cored. A lock on system such as LRM is intended to weaken targets and finish off runners, not kill them in literally less than 10 seconds.

[Mister Blastman]

What is funny is hearing the following in the same thread:

a. PPCs and Gauss require lots of skill.
and
b. LRMs require lots of skill.

When the truth is... neither require much skill at all. Both are point and click instant-cheeze win methods that have been or are overpowered.

Hilarious.

And the sad thing is that both are responsible for breaking the game.

[Meridian]

OvenRude, on 21 May 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Why change so many variables in one patch? You increase damage by 29%, increase speed by 20%, and totally change the flight path. It just makes no sense from a development and balance standpoint to change that many factors all at the same time. Change one, observe, and adjust accordingly.

Because their release schedule is bearing down on them and they've spent too long screwing around and ignoring issues like overpowered ECM and underpowered LRMs.

So now they're desperately tweaking variables in hopes of lucking into a workable solution.

I spend a lot of my time at work troubleshooting problems and once people fall out of the methodology and start desperately gambling for a lucky solution you know they're screwed.

Dirus Nigh, on 21 May 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

The end dive is a little steeper now, but it is not the 90 degree dive that it was when the devs introduced the last change to artemis. The damage level is good, I hoped they would try 1 point but .9 is working well.

I was firing at someone over some low hills in forest colony. He was getting mobbed by my team so I was basically just hoping to swipe the kill. My missiles would arc into the sky and then on the way down would actually perform a very sharp S-curve to hit the guy. And he wasn't really moving that fast.

[Seddrik]

Thuzel, on 21 May 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Just so you know, this is where a lot of people just stop reading. Have you ever actually tried to use LRMs effectively and as a main part of your build? I'm not even talking about boating here, I'm talking about using a couple of LRM 15s as your main armament.

Before today, they were [bleep] hard to use well. Now they're merely difficult, but they're still harder to use than almost every other weapon out there.

Honestly, the whole "all you have to do is lock on and faceroll" thing just makes me laugh.

[snip]

Ok. I only used lights, mediums & heavies before - with energy ballistics and MAYBE some SRMs. I personally prefer not to use lock on missles. Got on today and could not find cover fast enough. Nothing but hail storms of missles even when trying to hide. Soooo... I switched my highlander 732 to a missle boat. Never done it before... and broke 600 damage and 2 kills and multiple assists. The only module was advanced sensors.


So for you guys who say its not easy....that its the hardest weapon to use? I just have to chuckle... Its fabulously easy. Too easy. I have no doubt missle lovers will love this. But for me... I just havent had a single good brawl all day... so its a tie between frustration and boredom. I'm offline for now. Hope for a patch to fix the patch soon.

Edited by Seddrik, 21 May 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I recall people asking for a speed increase, not damage or flight path.
Have not played this patch yet, maybe I should take some time off until splash is fixed.

[Dude42]

A ridge humper, jump sniper QQ thread about LRM users. The guys who have been having their teeth kicked in due to the outright uselessness of LRMs. I'm so surprised. Cry more.

[Thuzel]

Seddrik, on 21 May 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Ok. I only used lights, mediums & heavies before - with energy ballistics and MAYBE some SRMs. I personally prefer not to use lock on missles. Got on today and could not find cover fast enough. Nothing but hail storms of missles even when trying to hide. Soooo... I switched my highlander 732 to a missle boat. Never done it before... and broke 600 damage and 2 kills and multiple assists. The only module was advanced sensors.

Not being sarcastic, but what point are you trying to make? I've been playing the same game as you and I can tell you it's nowhere near that bad. PGI has said that the final approach on indirectly fired LRMs is too steep and that they're working on it. But even with that, I've had no trouble evading incoming missiles, even in my slower rigs. It's not difficult.

I'm also not sure what you're saying about your own use of LRMs. 600 is a good number but it isn't fantastic, especially for an assault. That's not evidence of anything at all.

[Mackensen]

I hope that LRMs are back in the game now. They were useless before and you could ignore them which made the game boring. The game is more interesting with some elements of indirect fire.

[Dracorean]

LRM's seem fine to me, the hit detection seems a bit too focused rather than it being random however as the arcs of the missiles seem to get a bit odd and angular at some points. They can kill you if not careful but they are still limited by their short range blind spot like the PPC's but at 180 meters.

Seems to be good to get to cover when you hear the indication and shut down when there arent enemy mechs around to break the LRM mech's lock. The damage from a salvo that manages to hit you isn't as bad as letting them keep lock and constantly fire upon you.

[Rugbypig]

Thanks PGI for an interesting patch. :-)
Thank-you for increasing the point damage from .7 to .9.
The missle height and attack angle seems extreme (don't mean to criticize, just an observation)

Tested in testing grounds (using 2 LRM20 with Artemis (no TAG)) firing at 240ish m from directly in front of each mech
Commando - 1 salvo CT destroyed
Cicada - 1 salvo CT destroyed
Atlas - 1st salvo mech yellow except center T - orange, 2nd salvo mech still yellow except center T armour gone motor orange, 3rd mech dead
Centurion - 1st salvo mech yellow except center T - no armour and orange motor, 2nd salvo mech dead

Tested in testing grounds (using 2 LRM20 with Artemis (no TAG)) firing at 500ish m from directly in front of each mech
Awesome - 1st salvo mech yellow except center T - no armour and yellow motor, 2nd salvo mech dead
Cataphract - 1st salvo mech yellow except center T - orange, 2nd salvo mech dead

If I may suggest a slightly larger spread and a slightly less severe attack angle that may make cover better and "even" out the missle damage slightly.

Nice to see that missles are a threat again, and people are having to adapt to a truly multi ordinance battlefield>

Keep up the great work!

[LoneGunman]

Throwing my hat in here. I get that the LRMs probably need to have higher damage to make them competitive (I've watched salvo after salvo hit and barely scratch a mech). Thing is, with the new patch, it's much harder to avoid LRMs to the point where as mentioned by others, even flat against a tall building or wall, they're still flying over and hitting you. A single guided missile is one thing, a generic series of salvos all tightly clustered (without tag or narc or anything obvious benefiting them) hitting you regardless of cover is a load of crap.

Worse either everyone has tags that can operate through terrain or buildings or those clustering effects are fubar. Everyone is getting hit square in the center torso (even if sideways to the path of the missiles). It's like you chalked up the improved kill rate in testing to the increased damage rather than the concentration of damage to CT.

Now every match, it's LRM boats with LRM 15s and 20s since they know they can get kills left and right now. Not fun...realistic? Maybe but not fun...

[Stormysands]

yeah this game isnt even fun to play anymore if you want to run something other then a ecm atlas or a missle boat. i know its still beta but i hope a fix comes soon. the truth is that rite now you can try and hide behind a building or stay back and camp but as soon as you shoot at something or a atlas with a ecm comes sneaking up on you or a scout with ecm it dosnt take alot of skill for a missle boat to search you out and kill your *** in 10 secs. theres has to be more balance if this game wants to survive. im in a gaming community that has been playing this game for awhile now and all night i had to listen to abunch of grown men bitching and moaning about this issue and its only the first day. and for all you people saying this is great and welcome to how mec should be , im sure your the ones with all the missles

[Squatchy1390]

Never once have really had any problems with LRM's and I prefer not to complain until Thurs or hotfixes. I know how to move, stay out of sight, duck behind cover, run straight up in the enemy's face, so on and so forth when up against LRM's... but after this patch, I don't know what to do. Getting cored by Stalkers or Cats packing LRM40+ everytime im not immediately behind cover. Last game I tried a little experiement with my highest armored chasis. Moved some weight around so CT was maxed out. All the other armor ratings running pretty low. I expected to lose an arm or LT/RT. I didn't lose any arms, legs or LT/RT. Instead was cored by LRM's while behind a hill I knew use to be able to block indirect LRM fire prepatch. Next game with the same armor loadout CT was gone from 100% before I could even get behind cover (70m away) after the incoming missle tone. I think the damage value is about where it should be (maybe drop to .8), but please make these things hit with less focus on the CT.

On another note, kinda like the Blackjack. The new map is pretty awesome and feels a lot different from the others. Love the bug fixes and the new modules are nice. Keep up the work PGI, but PLEASE look back into LRM's.

[Crashingmail]

From http://mwomercs.com/...93#entry2369593

Quote

One other thing (and this was sorta mentioned in Ask the Devs 38), is that we missed the patch window by a day and were not able to get a splash damage reduction into the build for this patch. The splash damage is pushing a lot of damage to CT at the moment.

These issues will be fixed very soon. (Hopefully before the first June patch. If not, then it WILL be the first June patch)

And the bigger problem is that the building on startpoints does not give any cover any more against LRM. They hit u also when u are hiding completely behind the structure.

Edited by Crashingmail, 21 May 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[SgtMaster]

so funny...

but i agree, less CT damage and more headshots, since they tend to land on the head more than the CT...

Edited by SgtMaster, 21 May 2013 - 11:01 PM.