55 replies to this topic

[Chairman Meow]

Sadly my PSU is having some trouble lately and I crashed out of all my games yesterday while trying a dual LBX CTF-4X, only got off 3 or shots.
How did the Buff work out?
Are they any good now?

Edited by Chairman Meow, 22 May 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Under 100m it seems pretty tight, shooting at Cat all pellets hit missle box.

[DaZur]

I'm enjoying the buff...

I use it on my "Balanced-Phract" (ERPPC, 4xMLas, LBX/10) and I finally feel like it's delivering the intended up-close "slap-down" it's was intended to be.

I got four alpha kill shots with it last night that "previously" would not have amounted to much more than some splash damage.

I'll keep it.

Edited by DaZur, 22 May 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[Lostdragon]

I played a few of games in my dual LBX-10 CTF 4X. IMO it is still not very good. You still need to close to ~200m just to get all the pellets on target and you still need to be almost point blank to have them all hit on section. The damage per pellet needs a significant increase if they want to see this weapon used more. That or give the option to switch between pellets and slugs.

[TexAce]

Spread feels much better now. My Dual LBX Jäger is happy.

[Boogie Man]

Spread is still too big.

[DaZur]

Lostdragon, on 22 May 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

You still need to close to ~200m just to get all the pellets on target and you still need to be almost point blank to have them all hit on section.

Agree with the slug option but I've never quite understood the ~200m issue... In my mind it's a sawed-off shotgun. Yes, you can pepper your target at distance and the damage in incurred globally or you can get all close and personal and make creamed corn out of their face.

That said, I use it as a gate-way closure weapon... I start off picking at distance with the ERPPC, closing in... I begin using the MLas (in chair or grouped depending on the ambient heat of the map) and then if / when I close to ~200m, I use it to crit seek and or simply add it to my long and medium weapons as a finishing alpha package.

Expecting it to be a dominate weapon outside of 200m is like being disappointed your McDonalds burger does not taste like a New York Strip

Every tool has it's job...

Edited by DaZur, 22 May 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

DaZur, on 22 May 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

I'm enjoying the buff...

I use it on my "Balanced-Phract" (ERPPC, 4xMLas, LBX/10) and I finally feel like it's delivering the intended up-close "slap-down" it's was intended to be.

I got four alpha kill shots with it last night that "previously" would not have amounted to much more than some splash damage.

I'll keep it.

What! You run a balanced build! What! Maybe this will catch on.

[DaZur]

Ryokens leap, on 22 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

What! You run a balanced build! What! Maybe this will catch on.

Yeah... that's me... fashion mogul and balanced-build trendsetter...

[armyof1]

Still a waste of tonnage, instead of becoming pretty worthless beyond 125m, it's now worthless beyond 150m. Especially now after Ballistics HSR it's a lot easier to hit with regular ACs, which further makes the LBX pointless.

Edited by armyof1, 22 May 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Demos]

DaZur, on 22 May 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Agree with the slug option but I've never quite understood the ~200m issue... In my mind it's a sawed-off shotgun. Yes, you can pepper your target at distance and the damage in incurred globally or you can get all close and personal and make creamed corn out of their face.

Thats the problem. It is NOT a sawed-off shot gun.
LBX-5 or -2 have longer ranges as their 'conventional' counterpart. Why would you use such a gun with fewer pellets (5 and 2 respectively) and a large spread with an effective weapon range of >600 and > 800m?
LBX pays for this range with weapon weight, but if you cannot use this range this weapon is not viable.

[Enigmos]

LBX does good damage, you just get fewer kill shots with it.

[Lostdragon]

DaZur, on 22 May 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Agree with the slug option but I've never quite understood the ~200m issue... In my mind it's a sawed-off shotgun. Yes, you can pepper your target at distance and the damage in incurred globally or you can get all close and personal and make creamed corn out of their face.

That said, I use it as a gate-way closure weapon... I start off picking at distance with the ERPPC, closing in... I begin using the MLas (in chair or grouped depending on the ambient heat of the map) and then if / when I close to ~200m, I use it to crit seek and or simply add it to my long and medium weapons as a finishing alpha package.

Expecting it to be a dominate weapon outside of 200m is like being disappointed your McDonalds burger does not taste like a New York Strip

Every tool has it's job...

The problem I have with it is that it should be viable as a main weapon and the way it works now ghe LBX is not. I run my 4X with 2 LBX and an ERLL so I have a longer range weapon as well, but the way the game works right now if I start closing on a target at 650m then the enemy has quite a bit of time to core me with pin point accurate weapons before I get close enough to put 20 damage into his center torso consistently.

If you can use cover and close without getting hit then the LBX is ok, but that makes it a very situational weapon because it is not possible to do that on some maps. As it stands right now the LBX is not powerful enough at any range to justify taking it over an AC10. The only advantage it has over an AC10 is it makes it easier to hit lights. If you have an energy hardpoint you are always better of taking an ERPPC than the LBX because that weapon does just as much damage at close range, does all its damage to a single location, and is capable of doing the same pin point damage at several times the effective range of the LBX.

The LBX is a highly specialized weapon and also the most expensive in the game. It needs to be very good at its role so that it makes sense to use it over another option. Right now taking any other weapon or combination of weapons that does 10 damage is better because those weapons outperform the LBX in every conceivable situation except a PPC at < 90m. There is basically no incentive to make a balanced build in the current status of the game.

What is the downside of taking an AC10 instead of an LBX? 1 ton and one crit gets you a weapon capable of dealing the same 10 damage to one spot at over twice the range the LBX can. That relegates the LBX to the gimmicky trash bin.

[Belorion]

Boogie Man, on 22 May 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Spread is still too big.

You don't want the spread to be too tight... then its just an AC-10.

Edited by Belorion, 22 May 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Boogie Man]

Belorion, on 22 May 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

You don't want the spread to be too tight... then its just an AC-10.

At 200m it took me 26 shots to destroy a commando in training grounds aiming at center mass. On average I would guess only 60 to 70% of pellets hit per shot. At 200m the spread should be tight enough for most or all pellets to hit every shot for this weapon to even be considered a serious choice. They don't all have to hit a single location but the spread is still so huge a large amount flat out miss the entire mech.

[Monky]

It is still poor. It's a buff but the gun will not be effective without a damage increase per pellet.

[DaZur]

Demos, on 22 May 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Thats the problem. It is NOT a sawed-off shot gun.
LBX-5 or -2 have longer ranges as their 'conventional' counterpart. Why would you use such a gun with fewer pellets (5 and 2 respectively) and a large spread with an effective weapon range of >600 and > 800m?
LBX pays for this range with weapon weight, but if you cannot use this range this weapon is not viable.

Semantics IMHO...

It's typically a cluster munition... Depending on engagement range the shrapnel spray is either focused or well... spread out. In this effect is operates "like" a shotgun.

Why take a shotgun to do what a rifle is designed to do? You want localized / point damage you should be taking the AC/10... You want to paint the entire torso of your target with tungsten shot at range or stick the muzzle in their face and focus the blast... you take the LBX-10. Yes, I know it's supposed to be able to fire normal AC rounds but until such time, this is the premise...

The small bore LBX's are just ridiculous at face value... WTF is 2 to 5 points of damage going to do regardless of distance?

[DaZur]

Boogie Man, on 22 May 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

At 200m it took me 26 shots to destroy a commando in training grounds aiming at center mass. On average I would guess only 60 to 70% of pellets hit per shot. At 200m the spread should be tight enough for most or all pellets to hit every shot for this weapon to even be considered a serious choice. They don't all have to hit a single location but the spread is still so huge a large amount flat out miss the entire mech.

Understood... but also your "center mass" damage is still largely distributed over RT, CT and LT unless you were stand directly in front of it ~ 100m.

I still don't grasp why anyone would take an LBX to do what the standard AC/10 does better?

Yes, it's entirely possible I'm dense...

[Maxx Blue]

I only ever really use the LBX on a CN9-D I have set up as a light hunter. In close in twirly-fights I find it helps me land at least SOME damage if my aim is a bit off rather than the total miss I would get with a regular AC. Other than that, I'd rather have an AC/10. I played my light hunter last night and didn't really notice a difference. The spread was still enough that I would take the regular AC on anything whose goal in life is to kill mediums and larger. Lights have low enough armor that I'm willing to spread my damage out in exchange for landing a higher percentage of my damage in the first place. On anything heavier, I don't really want to make that trade.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 22 May 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[Kymlaar]

This weapon suffers from a common issue in games. Games have this idea that shotguns in real life have a massive spread, but if this were true they wouldn't be very effective hunting weapons. As an example, some hunting shotguns on full choke have a spread of 40 inches (101.6 cm) at a range of 40 yards (36.6 meters).

Assuming a conical spread pattern, and expanding this to Mechwarrior ranges, I would expect a spread of 14.98 meters at a range of 540 meters from this weapon. Putting that in terms of mechs in the game, that spread would cover a a catapult top to bottom completely, with waste on the sides.



(image source)

I believe the spread we have currently is much larger than that. To use the example above concerning the commando at 200 meters, we would expect a spread at 200 meters of 5.548 meters, which should easily fit within the torso area of the commando.

Basically, I feel that right now we're seeing spread that is much too large, and limits the effective range of a weapon which could be useful for snap shots and crit-seeking. This is a common trend in games, and I wish that it's one that would not persist.

Edited by Kymlaar, 22 May 2013 - 10:34 AM.