325 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Fooooo, on 23 May 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Until we get those markers, nobody can really trust anyone on anything about premades being in their matches or not.

4 people with nearly the same ping, picking the same target at the same time over the whole match is a clear sign for it. Sometimes they have the same colors and/or tags.

To bad for 8 mans, not good enough for solo? Then 4 man stomp random people!
Search the forum, you will find a lot posts about some units having more then 1 4man group out there at the same time ...

Edited by Galenit, 23 May 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Bilbo]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

What did the devs say about premade numbers?
If i remember right, it was only a small number of the playerbase and not 50% as you say.
Maybe a lot of the real pug players left after encountering to much 4 man fotm groups or heard a "gg close" one time to much?

You remember wrong. The devs said the "majority" of players play with friends.

[Fooooo]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

4 people with nearly the same ping, picking the same target at the same time over the whole match is a clear sign for it. Sometimes they have the same colors and/or tags.

To bad for 8 mans, not good enough for solo? Then 4 man stomp random people!
Search the forum, you will find a lot posts about some units having more then 1 4man group out there at the same time ...

Whilst that can be a decent indicator, its not 100% fullproof.

What if there just happened to be 4 players that moved to the same spot (following someone), and just so happend to know how to focus fire............I've done it plenty of times.

Were some of those players I followed and focus fired with in a 2man or 3 man ? I have no idea.


Without a marker saying yes that was a premade group, you can't 100% tell the difference between good solo pubs working as a team vs a 4man.


Yes, there is a few groups that are well above others play level and you can get close to 100%......but its still not 100%.
Even if someone said yes I am, I am trusting them, how do I know they aren't just toying with me ?

Thats why to me, its pointless to argue until there ARE markers. In which people can then post screenys of a whole team of premades against their full pub team. etc etc........

[DeathofSelf]

I have been saying this since the beginning! Those evil premades are nothing but a bunch of soulless baby seal clubbers, I also heard they kick kittens and laugh about it! I just makes me sick... You premades should be ashamed.

Edit: OP, did you "like" my post cause you thought I was being serious? You do realize I am being sarcastic right? I thought I was laying it on pretty thick...I must say though, it would be that much more hilarious if you thought I was being serious

Edited by DeathofSelf, 23 May 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Community Warfare will be plumb-full of partial Premades, especially the Mercenary vs Mercenary combat...

... and that kind of means that nobody who intends to participate in the Mercenary-side of Community Warfare should be disapproving of 4-mans. If you intend on playing as a Lone Wolf, then your fate is to be injected into other peoples' matches in order to fill out the teams' ranks, which will undoubtedly include partial-premades a significant amount of the time.

The only individuals who can honestly complain about 4-mans are those who intend specifically on playing as a Faction Player without joining others to play as a group, because the other playstyles are categorically-anchored to the concept of playing with premades. I'm sure that the roll-out of Community Warfare information this summer will illustrate what I'm talking about.

The idea of running a 4-man against random pick-up-players is not going to help Team players teach themselves much about team-vs-team combat, though. It sure works as a way to farm for C-Bills and XP during this Open Beta phase, but when they have to fight against other premades later this year, then they will likely suffer many defeats due to a lack of good training against other coordinated teams.

This whole Open Beta is comprised of system tests, and not the final-form of matchmaking/gameplay. More features will also be added over this summer, like the integrated C3 VoIP system that already is partially built into the game and will link PUGers to their premade teammates. We really have to wait a few months to see how 4-man partial-premades really effect Community Warfare's Matchmaking systems. They may be "exploiting" right now in the sense that they are giving themselves a temporary battlefield advantage during this Beta stage, but they are not really helping themselves for the actual Game Launch when it leaves Open Beta...

Remember that, now in Open Beta, you will be assisted by 4-mans just as frequently as you are facing-off against them, so it's not really unfair in terms of the long-temr effects it'll have on your W/L ratios. MechWarrior: Online was built as a Team-Based game, so the best thing we can do for now is to work alongside your own team's Premades when you got-em, and try to work together against them when they are on the other team.

[Roland]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

To bad for 8 mans, not good enough for solo?

The current system prevents people from dropping in the 8 man queue, unless you actually have exactly 8 men.

The real solution to the problems folks are bringing up here, is to make a separate SOLO queue, and get rid of the 8 man queue, and then just put all grouped players into a single queue.

[Galenit]

Roland, on 23 May 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The current system prevents people from dropping in the 8 man queue, unless you actually have exactly 8 men.

I was told a lot of times, in this forum by premadeplayers, to go on comstar and find a group.

Cant a premade do the same to fill their ranks for 8vs8?

Edited by Galenit, 23 May 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Teir Dasande]

Wow. This thread is NEW and EXCITING. Nerf teamwork. In a team based game. Really. You fly the Kurita banner, why not go find the house teamspeak channel and drop with them? This game is so much more fun with a team, its how its ment to be played.

Also, teamwork is not op for me. I kill more things when I solo drop then when I drop with my clan.

[silentD11]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I was told a lot of times, in this forum by premadeplayers, to go on comstar and find a group.

Cant a premade do the same to fill their ranks for 8vs8?

There are problems with 8v8 that make it un fun and not worth playing. If you think FOTM builds and min maxing is common in pugs you haven't seen anything. Plus not all premades are 4, it's often just like 2-3 friends.

I pug, premade, and do 8s. 8s suck and there is a reason it's barren. When I pug I don't even mind premades either, it's never been an issue.

[I am]

I'll complain about it as long as it impacts my experience playing MWO, and as long as it makes it difficult if not impossible to pull other friends into the game. Are you telling me that Community Warfare will be inherently imbalanced, and I will be forced to play in it? Ample fodder for clans to "8-1, gg!" at? Sounds like a recipe for bleeding new and casual players like a sieve.

Edited by I am, 23 May 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Roland]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I was told a lot of times, in this forum by premadeplayers, to go on comstar and find a group.

Cant a premade do the same to fill their ranks for 8vs8?

Well, for my unit as an example, we have our own private comms server. We don't really want to just allow random folks onto it.

Additionally, the current inability to play with 5-7 players means that filling up the ranks is problematic.. since it's not a question of, "Hey do you want to play?" but rather, "Do you want to agree to wait around while we find 3 more players?"

Personally, I would be perfectly happy playing with a smaller group against full 8 man teams. I'd much rather that, if it meant that I could play with however many friends are online at any given time. As it stands, when a 5th guy shows up, someone else will usually just drop off and do other things to give them room to play.

[Billygoat]

We've been through this since closed beta.

They won't / can't split the queues in that way because they don't have the player numbers for it to be sustainable. So your options are basically, end up with occasionally lame matches because one side has a 4 cocky punks in a group as it is now or "failed to find match" a heck of a lot more.

[Galenit]

Teir Dasande, on 23 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Nerf teamwork.

This lets you look stupid.
He ask to separate the solo and the groupplayers, not to nerf teamplay.

If you cant find someone other that explains it on your level,
i can try it with apple and peaches, if you ask nicely.

Roland, on 23 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

Well, for my unit as an example, we have our own private comms server. We don't really want to just allow random folks onto it.

Additionally, the current inability to play with 5-7 players means that filling up the ranks is problematic.. since it's not a question of, "Hey do you want to play?" but rather, "Do you want to agree to wait around while we find 3 more players?"

And the pugs should do that?
Wait for the other 2-7, go on coms with randoms, all the things you said against it ?

Edited by Galenit, 23 May 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Roland, on 23 May 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The current system prevents people from dropping in the 8 man queue, unless you actually have exactly 8 men.

The real solution to the problems folks are bringing up here, is to make a separate SOLO queue, and get rid of the 8 man queue, and then just put all grouped players into a single queue.

Hell yeah, bring group size 5-8 back with the option of solo dropping into free slots in the group games (say a 7man or a 3+4man) please... because screw dropping with a bunch of solo dropping crybabies

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 23 May 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Vapor Trail]

Roland, on 23 May 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The current system prevents people from dropping in the 8 man queue, unless you actually have exactly 8 men.

The real solution to the problems folks are bringing up here, is to make a separate SOLO queue, and get rid of the 8 man queue, and then just put all grouped players into a single queue.

Problem with this is that you need singletons to fill teams sometimes. Say you have a team of eight and a team of seven. Not sure everyone would want "just some guy" in on their team... but only rarely would an additional guy be worse than nothing.

So lets propose three "drop settings"

Any available match, Team mode, and Solo mode.

So the first one you would drop against solos (as a solo) or with teams if they need a fill in. Second would be if you have a team of two or more. Third one you'd only drop against other solo people.

Or to name them correctly:
"I don't care, I'll play anything mode."
"Mechwarrior mode."
"Easy mode."

[Roland]

Vapor Trail, on 23 May 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Problem with this is that you need singletons to fill teams sometimes. Say you have a team of eight and a team of seven. Not sure everyone would want "just some guy" in on their team... but only rarely would an additional guy be worse than nothing.

Oh, don't get me wrong, my proposal wouldn't PREVENT a solo player from dropping in the team queue.

It's just that it gives a queue to folks who really want to avoid any type of team coordination, and just run around and do their own thing... and then everyone else, including every group, plays in the "regular" queue.

I suspect that a good chunk of solo players would actually choose to play in the regular queue anyway, just like they do in other games that implement a similar queue system.

[zraven7]

...ok, this is getting silly.

This is a team-based game. It's meant to support teamwork and communication. You aren't getting stomped by 4-man groups because it's not fair, you're getting stomped because, well, you aren't in a 4 man group.

Of course you are going to get your tail kicked by people who are familiar with each other and communicating with each other.

So, why not, I dunno, make some friends?

Really, we aren't doing something you aren't allowed to do here. We joined a team-based game, made friends, and teamed up.

You have full freedom to choose to play by yourself and not talk to anyone. Fine. We have full freedom to play a team-based game like a team.

[Blood Skar]

Prosperity Park, on 23 May 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

-SNIPED-

Remember that, now in Open Beta, you will be assisted by 4-mans just as frequently as you are facing-off against them, so it's not really unfair in terms of the long-temr effects it'll have on your W/L ratios. MechWarrior: Online was built as a Team-Based game, so the best thing we can do for now is to work alongside your own team's Premades when you got-em, and try to work together against them when they are on the other team.

The OP is making a statement, saying currently premades are a bad thing for the game.

'4 man stomps' have been going on since i joined (and no doubt before)...he's right, all it currently does is put a newcomer to the game off the game completly. It's not a lot of fun getting rolled over and over - personally i fight till the second my mech falls and give as good as i get..however a newcomer to the game that is still learning the ins and outs of mech warfare...well they dont stand a snowballs chance in hell.

It's obvious what they will do in this situation of facing a 4 man premade on the other team over and over (1in3, 1in2 however bad their luck is)- pack up and move games (yes probably to the 'other' game where its 15v15).

I've yet to hear a counter arguement to a solo queue...

''The only individuals who can honestly complain about 4-mans are those who intend specifically on playing as a Faction Player without joining others to play as a group, because the other playstyles are categorically-anchored to the concept of playing with premades.''

Currently 4 man stomps affect anyone that solo queues. So i would say anyone that currently solo queues can 'honestly complain' about premades...

Also you say above that a player will be assisted by 4 man teams as much as they will face them.

Thats untrue.

When you queue(solo) you fill a lance spot - that means that there are 3 other spots that cannot be a 4 man premade.

So say 1 premade of 4 drops out of 16 players.
12 solo players.
4 in 12 chance of being on the team with the premade of 4.
8 in 12 chance of being on the team without a premade(and no doubt at least a few newbies)
I'd say this would definately affect win loss ratio !
This is the exact reason my win/loss isn't great but my kill/death is good.
Coz im a good player but always solo play.

If 2 premades drop that will even up the win/loss as you say. 2 premades dropping in one game is a lot rarer than just 1 dropping though.

So its untrue to say that ''you will be assisted by 4-mans just as frequently as you are facing-off against them, so it's not really unfair in terms of the long-temr effects it'll have on your W/L ratios.''

Because when only 1 premade drops this will greatly affect W/L ratios. As i have shown - based on the chances of being placed with that 1 premade group of 4, out of 16 players.

TL;DR: Solo queue is only a good thing and i havn't seen a decent counter arguement.
When 1 premade drops only, a solo player has far less chance of being placed on that team.
4 man stomps are not good for the game - they will just drive newcomers away.

Edited by Blood Skar, 23 May 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Galenit, on 23 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

snip

He ask to separate the solo and the group players, not to nerf teamplay.

So what your saying is that the Teams of 4 or eight should be separated because if you play as 8 Solo's or Pugs, to win Team work is not required?

Whom will you Whine to when you do get your 8 Solo play group and still get 8-0 stomped? The same crowd you Whine to now and you wonder why you get no sympathy? (Holy Smokes Batman)

I have played many many Pug games with no comms and it takes very little effort or Text, done early on, to get the Solo based TEAM to do the right thing and have a legit chance.

If all you want is an excuse as to why you continue to Lose against this Phantom Boogeyman, no one can provide you that. Well, other than suggest that you play the game as a "Team of 8 solo's". Issue most have is when you, and the 7 others, all blame the other pugs for your own failings, things will never go well.

How many dead Rambo's ride around in the other players cockpits grossin/bad mouthing about how "their team mates suck"? Think about that...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 23 May 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Jakeyda]

When I run pugs, I do not notice these issues at all. Not that I am not running into 2-4 mans in the pugs, It just doesn't affect my gameplay experience. I prefer to run with a couple friends, cause, you know, having friends to play with makes it more fun. When in a match, do you always run off alone or not cooperate with your team or something? Just my 2 cents