123 replies to this topic

[Cyttorak]

tsula, on 08 November 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

I Would love to see how ECM could effect things but there are so many work around that now out side comms and be used to over come that ie vent or Team speak,. but it might limit what the commander role can do form reading the DevBlog#0 seems commander can call in air strikes and Artillery. So maybe a light might hiding with its ECM on can limit the commander options for his side, and if a air strike is really needed well then it might now come if the commander can't call it in. Same can be said if a BAP is running they might be able to pick up mech hiding and can relay that info to commander, also can see maybe a C3 system working there as well as TAG a target for Air Strike or Artillery mainly Arrow IV homing, or indirect fire support spotter. Possible for NARC and possibly just for a faint run at something get the attention of the other side and hit some place else. I would pilot a light mech, to med mech for those reason but I like to pilot them as well anyway.

Good ideas. Scouts are the only ones with early warning of incoming TAG, NARC or artillery. Maybe they have sensors that can actually see the TAG beam and locate the source?

[Myraeri]

In one of the early interviews they said light mechs would be the only ones able to walk on the rooftops of buildings. It would certainly be fun to be the only one capable of sniping from above and would encourage the brutal light vs light gameplay continuing on rooftops even after the initial engagement.

I would also suggest adding a highly visible way to call targets (or even specific armor locations on an enemy) only available to light mechs, adding to their support role.

[TheForce]

HardDrive, on 08 November 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:

The last time I played any BT Game was MPBT Solaris And I would normally always Choose A Jenner or a Jav, very few people could actually hit me

Did you need to lag shoot in MPBT or was it client server networking like MW4?

[Stormwolf]

You guys are missing the obvious here.

Situation 1
Larger units of let's say 2 lances can decide to shutdown their mechs in a area with buildings and whatnot. A mech mounting ECM could also be present to hide them further from detection.
Light mechs could draw fire from stray enemies and draw them into a area where the shutdown mechs are in wait. and wait for the strays to be in range before the lances power up and take them apart.

The light mechs that drew fire would be able to communicate with their lance that they'd be bringing a stray mech into range so they can move in for the kill. After those easy kills they can finish of the rest of the enemy force because they would now have the advantage in numbers.

Why is this important for light mechs?
- Lights are seen as a weak threat, some players with heavier designs would be tempted to go after them to get easy kills.
- Lights have speed that other designs don't have, they'd be able to outrun enemies till they reach the trap area.
- Special equipment would carried by lights would make them more valuable for more advanced tactics.


Situation 2
Situation 1 can be avoided entirely by simply sending out scoutmechs with equipment like BAP. Sweeping the map at high speeds would give them a idea about the enemies location and if they are preparing for a ambush. Relaying this information back to the heavies in the unit could prevent a disaster. Alternately, you could TAG or NARC a enemy so the others can take them apart.

And why is this important?
- Tons of people, most notably n00bs won't understand the benefit of scouting, seeing the enemy and withdrawing will allow a light mech to team up with the bulk of the force. Again speed is important here, most mediums won't be able to do this in time.
- NARC is a nice toy when you have Catapults and other missileboats in your lance, it's just shoot and get out of the way.
- Scouting and scanning the map is the only way to prevent ambushes like in scenario 1, so lights would also be useful here.


Although lights will in no way be useful if people can't work like a team.

[Cyttorak]

Well, those are all the "standard" uses of NARC, ECM and BAP. These were/are their uses in the boardgame and MegaMek.
What will be different in a MMOS, where YOU are the one in the cockpit, that can be used to further enhance the IW-role of lights?

For instance, TROs have often mentioned in the fluff that for units like the Cyclops, there were really good command and control electronics...the boardgame never had any "standard" rule to reflect this. For MWO, these electronics can be reflected by having enhanced capabilities or better modifiers (somehow) for the commander in his role.

Conversely, the lights with ECM/BAP can possibly take this new ability away.

Edited by Cyttorak, 08 November 2011 - 02:38 PM.

[simon1812]

Creel, on 08 November 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

They've indicated that this will not be the case. It sounds like they want all of the available roles to be available immediately to new players.

-really?...then why the hell would i like to drive one of...oh right that what the thread is about well it sucks! I cant imagine who would like to play the little guy sitting in the corner providing only information or buff, it doesnt matter how many interesting toys and gadgets u get, just doesnt sound as fun as getting head on into the fry. would there be a possibility to relegate that kind of role to a bot? just like the hecnmen system in others MMORPG like GuildWars? where u can start a team made up of AI in case there arent enough players? but in this case it would be to fill up the spot nobody wants, which is also a problem in GW btw, nobody want to be the monk (healer) so they r terribly scarse and the AI is so inept.

[HardDrive]

theforce, on 08 November 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

Did you need to lag shoot in MPBT or was it client server networking like MW4?

I honestly dont remember but if I had to guess I would say lag shoot, but I always had a pretty solid connection.

[simon1812]

Myraeri, on 08 November 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

In one of the early interviews they said light mechs would be the only ones able to walk on the rooftops of buildings. It would certainly be fun to be the only one capable of sniping from above and would encourage the brutal light vs light gameplay continuing on rooftops even after the initial engagement.

I would also suggest adding a highly visible way to call targets (or even specific armor locations on an enemy) only available to light mechs, adding to their support role.

-darn it! ... yeah thats actually a good idea...that would make driving light mech at least different from the heavier brothers and even interesting, I like it, it does actually feel like a reason to drive light mech XD

[Cyttorak]

simon1812, on 08 November 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

-really?...then why the hell would i like to drive one of...oh right that what the thread is about well it sucks! I cant imagine who would like to play the little guy sitting in the corner providing only information or buff, it doesnt matter how many interesting toys and gadgets u get, just doesnt sound as fun as getting head on into the fry. would there be a possibility to relegate that kind of role to a bot? just like the hecnmen system in others MMORPG like GuildWars? where u can start a team made up of AI in case there arent enough players? but in this case it would be to fill up the spot nobody wants, which is also a problem in GW btw, nobody want to be the monk (healer) so they r terribly scarse and the AI is so inept.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!
I assume most players might find the role of support very boring...unless the devs can find a way to make it interesting.
The use of TAG is actually a good example...if only the ECM-cloaked light can get close enough to deliver a TAG for incoming artillery that DEVASTATES the other teams' mechs, well that would be a good reason to play one!

[Creel]

simon1812, on 08 November 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

-really?...then why the hell would i like to drive one of...oh right that what the thread is about well it sucks! I cant imagine who would like to play the little guy sitting in the corner providing only information or buff, it doesnt matter how many interesting toys and gadgets u get, just doesnt sound as fun as getting head on into the fry. would there be a possibility to relegate that kind of role to a bot? just like the hecnmen system in others MMORPG like GuildWars? where u can start a team made up of AI in case there arent enough players? but in this case it would be to fill up the spot nobody wants, which is also a problem in GW btw, nobody want to be the monk (healer) so they r terribly scarse and the AI is so inept.

I'm that guy. Looks like most of the people involved in this thread are also 'that guy'.

[Stormwolf]

Cyttorak, on 08 November 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Well, those are all the "standard" uses of NARC, ECM and BAP. These were/are their uses in the boardgame and MegaMek.
What will be different in a MMOS, where YOU are the one in the cockpit, that can be used to further enhance the IW-role of lights?

Yes they are, I was more going for "people need to be willing to play the role of light".
Your average players are gonna go in guns blazing with the biggest mech they can find, a smart player agrees with his teammates to take up roles.

The light mech pilot won't be getting a lot kills if they only spot and NARC targets, this could be a big turnoff for many players.

Sure there are hit and run tactics, but that'll mostly be a team effort aswell.


And to elaborate on a earlier comment of mine, allow the "Ghost Targets" feature on ECM. The Ghost targets in this version would add blips on the enemy radar where there aren't any, in some cases they will completely hide friendly units. A light player would have to be willing to go to a remote part of the map with ghost Targets activated to lure enemy mechs there (and get out of there when they arrive).

A light player would have to be a smart player.

Edited by stormwolf, 08 November 2011 - 02:47 PM.

[Argatson Krieghammer]

Why pilot a light mech? because an urban mech is the deadliest son of a b**** in space on the battlefield

[Creel]

Cyttorak, on 08 November 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Well, those are all the "standard" uses of NARC, ECM and BAP. These were/are their uses in the boardgame and MegaMek.
What will be different in a MMOS, where YOU are the one in the cockpit, that can be used to further enhance the IW-role of lights?

For instance, TROs have often mentioned in the fluff that for units like the Cyclops, there were really good command and control electronics...the boardgame never had any "standard" rule to reflect this. For MWO, these electronics can be reflected by having enhanced capabilities or better modifiers (somehow) for the commander in his role.

Conversely, the lights with ECM/BAP can possibly take this new ability away.

There have been vague references to the 'Battle Grid' which will allow commanders to call in artillery strikes and coordinate units. This sounds, to me, very similar to the command chair in Natural Selection (an obscure counterstrike mod). The command chair gave a marine the ability to get a top-down view of the battlefield that was fleshed out as other members of the platoon explored the maps. He could set waypoints arrange supply drops, and generally coordinate the efforts of the whole team.

This concept gives me funny feelings in my pants.

[wanderer]

Cyttorak, on 08 November 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Well, those are all the "standard" uses of NARC, ECM and BAP. These were/are their uses in the boardgame and MegaMek.
What will be different in a MMOS, where YOU are the one in the cockpit, that can be used to further enhance the IW-role of lights?

For instance, TROs have often mentioned in the fluff that for units like the Cyclops, there were really good command and control electronics...the boardgame never had any "standard" rule to reflect this. For MWO, these electronics can be reflected by having enhanced capabilities or better modifiers (somehow) for the commander in his role.

Conversely, the lights with ECM/BAP can possibly take this new ability away.

Actually, they do have rules for those now in the tabletop version- Strat Ops has the "quirks" listings, which includes things like command-optimized machines like the Cyclops. Well worth the reading.

[Lab Rat]

Cyttorak, on 08 November 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!
I assume most players might find the role of support very boring...unless the devs can find a way to make it interesting.
The use of TAG is actually a good example...if only the ECM-cloaked light can get close enough to deliver a TAG for incoming artillery that DEVASTATES the other teams' mechs, well that would be a good reason to play one!

Eyes On Target bonus....
You're in a scout and have your crosshairs on a mech or 3. you hit your 'laze' button, painting the targets, your bigger friends come in and beat them up. As long as you have the target(s) painted (will require you be within a certain range to avoid abuse), you get a percentage of the cash and/or exp of those doing the actual damage to your painted target.
Gives you incentive to sneak up and provide intel. and you're in the excitement zone, alleviating the boredom you described.
Could also apply to NARCs, artillery you've called in, etc.

Just an idea.

[Cyttorak]

Lab Rat, on 08 November 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

Eyes On Target bonus....
You're in a scout and have your crosshairs on a mech or 3. you hit your 'laze' button, painting the targets, your bigger friends come in and beat them up. As long as you have the target(s) painted (will require you be within a certain range to avoid abuse), you get a percentage of the cash and/or exp of those doing the actual damage to your painted target.
Gives you incentive to sneak up and provide intel. and you're in the excitement zone, alleviating the boredom you described.
Could also apply to NARCs, artillery you've called in, etc.

Just an idea.

And that's going on the OP.

[Andrew Harvey]

**WARNING** **SCIENCE AHEAD**
Different types of equipment, specialized roles, and terrain rules could make Light BattleMechs more relevant in game. However, I think that there's a simpler way to increase their utility in a way that would apply to all Light 'Mechs regardless of equipment.

To do that, the game would need to model maneuverability in detail. What I mean by that is that a BattleMech's size and mass should make an impact on its maneuvering characteristics. A lighter 'Mech should be more agile than a heavier 'Mech due to it's smaller size and mass. Smaller size means a smaller footprint and a smaller turning radius. Lower mass means that there would be less inertia to overcome.

To summarize, if a BattleMech's size and mass were accounted for when calculating its maneuverability, then a lighter 'Mech would have the advantages of faster turning and better acceleration and engine response. Between 2 'Mechs with identical top speeds, the Panther and the Grasshopper let's say, the Panther would be more agile because although their movement curves are identical, the Grasshopper is twice the Panther's weight.

Newton's 1st Law states: An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted on by an unbalanced force. Basically it's about Inertia, and in our case that means two things:
-If our BattleMech isn't moving, its Equilibrium will help keep it still unless we push it hard enough to overcome that Equilibrium. To move our 'Mech, we have to exert a force that cancels out its own weight.
-If our BattleMech is moving, its Inertia will help keep it moving unless we push it hard enough to overcome that Inertia. To stop or turn our 'Mech, we have to exert a force that cancels out its own momentum.

Put simply, the heavier a Battlemech is, the more force we have to exert in order to; make it move, make it stop, and make it change direction. The Panther would require less energy than the Grasshopper to create the same action (moving, stopping, turning).

So, if the devs included a few of Newton's Laws in the physics engine somewhere, we could see big advantage for Light Battlemechs.

Edited by andrew harvey, 08 November 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[Obsidian]

I know it's a medium mech, but the Shadowcat was AWESOME.

Sometimes it's just fun to play something lighter, but I'd love to see a lot more tacticle support form light mechs enter play in this game. There's a lot more doors open for roles to play in a Multiplayer focused game instead of Single Player.

[Cyttorak]

I believe this was already the case even in MWs 2, 3 and 4. They had stats on max torso-twisting rate/ turn rate, and lights with low ground speed were consistently better at it.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i would really like it if ecm stopped all lrm and streak weapon locks and that light mechs could fit into cities and woodlands where heavy+ mechs could not. light mechs could also cross some frozen lakes and rivers. a fast moving light mech is a great asset with behind the lines strikes all on their own. imagine cutting supply to a cities defenses because the heavy defenders never saw the light mech sneak inside weapons range till the missles were already hitting their target

Edited by Geist Null, 08 November 2011 - 03:48 PM.