103 replies to this topic

[kuangmk11]

Reith Dynamis, on 26 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

and a second lrms mech at base all targeting one mech. It took 390 of my LRM to moderately damage a Muromets CTF-IM Cataphract. It still was not killed until a third mech stepped in.

Artemis? check.
Line of sight? check.
Target in the open like a ding bat? check.
Did lrm volley land? check.
Did the target lack AMS? check.

This is absolutely ridiculous. The stars couldn't have lined up more perfectly, yet a trebuchet with 2 Artemis 15's won't ever do anything viable if lrms remain the way they are.


05/27/2013 at 2:30PM, just wanted to up date. I had Tag on it for nearly this whole engagement when i lost line of slightly at the end for maybe 5 seconds, when the third mech came in.

Seeing exactly the same thing today.

AWS-8R 4xLRM15

6-8 full volleys at 300 to 400 meters to the back of a cataphract. no misses, tagged, clear line of sight, no cover = yellow armor. End of match under 200 damage which must have been done with my 2xLL. LRMs go back on the shelf.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

kuangmk11, on 27 May 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Seeing exactly the same thing today.

AWS-8R 4xLRM15

6-8 full volleys at 300 to 400 meters to the back of a cataphract. no misses, tagged, clear line of sight, no cover = yellow armor. End of match under 200 damage which must have been done with my 2xLL. LRMs go back on the shelf.

Yup they are busted.

[Unbound Inferno]

Were you at ANY point, under 180m? 179 for even a briefest of times between you? LRMs deal 0 damage under that. You could fire till doomsday with LRMs under 180 and do nothing to it.

Were you running away and him chasing? That makes it worse too - depending how fast a Cataphract runs (I've seen fast ones) you'll need alot more than 180m between you.

Average Cataphract I face with my Catapult take less than what you describe I think. Would have to count sometime.

[Nightcrept]

Unbound Inferno, on 27 May 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Were you at ANY point, under 180m? 179 for even a briefest of times between you? LRMs deal 0 damage under that. You could fire till doomsday with LRMs under 180 and do nothing to it.

Were you running away and him chasing? That makes it worse too - depending how fast a Cataphract runs (I've seen fast ones) you'll need alot more than 180m between you.

Average Cataphract I face with my Catapult take less than what you describe I think. Would have to count sometime.

They've been playing since closed beta. That isn't a mistake they are going to make.

[Unbound Inferno]

One would hope so, but you never know.

[Lyoto Machida]

I was just playing my Treb with 2 LRM-15s and TAG earlier. Was launching in open ground from 350-400m away while tagging them. Shot almost 4 tons of missles at them at a fairly close range in unobstructed terrain and ended with like 86 and 129 damage...ridiculous. Then switched to my Stalker with 5 LRM-10s just to see. Was pounding mechs on Alpine from up above with clear LoS...ended the game with 380 damage. That game would have been 750+ before. Got tired of doing little damage with LRMs so I switched to my 6 LL Stalker 3F and immediately did a couple games of 500+.

No reason to take LRMs right now...SRMs are pretty crap as well at the moment.

As far as the Treb I was playing earlier, took off the LRMs and switched to 2 LPLs and an ERPPC and scored over 300 on the first game, so...

[River Walker]

Unbound Inferno, on 27 May 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Were you at ANY point, under 180m? 179 for even a briefest of times between you? LRMs deal 0 damage under that. You could fire till doomsday with LRMs under 180 and do nothing to it.

Were you running away and him chasing? That makes it worse too - depending how fast a Cataphract runs (I've seen fast ones) you'll need alot more than 180m between you.

Average Cataphract I face with my Catapult take less than what you describe I think. Would have to count sometime.

Oh you just got to love this line of thinking.
If you don't agree with what was said you ask the guy if he knows how to shoot.

[Profiteer]

The problem comes down to the same thing that affects many of the weapons in this game: boating.

If they up the damage so that someone mounting 10-30 LRMs is actually effective, then a whole group of people will boat 60+ and start 1-2 shotting people. Then the forum QQs "LRMs-online", they get nerfed, etc etc.

I'm a boater because it works, but I think MWO would be a much more enjoyable game if there was some form of penalty for boating.

Whether this comes in the form of extra heat, or stopping it totally via small/medium/large hard-points, I don't know.

[IceSerpent]

Profiteer, on 27 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The problem comes down to the same thing that affects many of the weapons in this game: boating.

If they up the damage so that someone mounting 10-30 LRMs is actually effective, then a whole group of people will boat 60+ and start 1-2 shotting people. Then the forum QQs "LRMs-online", they get nerfed, etc etc.

Not quite - there shouldn't be any noticeable difference between boating LRMs or mixing LRMs with PPCs or just boating PPCs. The whole purpose of balancing is to ensure that all weapons intended for a given range are almost equally viable at that range. The differences should be situational (i.e. PPC boat should have slight advantage on a cold map). The situation you describe simply means that balance is off.

[River Walker]

Profiteer, on 27 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The problem comes down to the same thing that affects many of the weapons in this game: boating.

If they up the damage so that someone mounting 10-30 LRMs is actually effective, then a whole group of people will boat 60+ and start 1-2 shotting people. Then the forum QQs "LRMs-online", they get nerfed, etc etc.

I'm a boater because it works, but I think MWO would be a much more enjoyable game if there was some form of penalty for boating.

Whether this comes in the form of extra heat, or stopping it totally via small/medium/large hard-points, I don't know.

This is a good idea and i think the best way to do it is by how much a Mech engine can producer the power to run each system on the mech chaise.
Each weapon system consume so much power out of a Base of 100 points lets say.
Doing it that way make user think about power consumption for the build of their Mech.

[cyberFluke]

Profiteer, on 27 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The problem comes down to the same thing that affects many of the weapons in this game: boating.

If they up the damage so that someone mounting 10-30 LRMs is actually effective, then a whole group of people will boat 60+ and start 1-2 shotting people. Then the forum QQs "LRMs-online", they get nerfed, etc etc.

I'm a boater because it works, but I think MWO would be a much more enjoyable game if there was some form of penalty for boating.

Whether this comes in the form of extra heat, or stopping it totally via small/medium/large hard-points, I don't know.

Redo heat as Mustrum has been saying since about wave two of Beta, and boating becomes far less of a problem. But hey, what do the long time testers/players know, right?

[Unbound Inferno]

Eh, to each their own - talking to you River, no reason to act like a jerk about an honest question. I drive my Catapult fast and mobile(alot I imagine a Medium like a Trebuchet would be), and when I shoot at something like a Cataphract I am usually dancing with it for cover on the run. Speed and motion is a huge factor in this game as to how close you need to be to fire. So I was asking to be sure since I didn't read that distance in it at first.

The other reason I ask is my Catapults rely heavily on LRMs. My matches almost always deal 400+ damage when I last in them. 600+ isn't that uncommon actually. Moving targets almost always take more shots, but a slower mech or one standing still dies far faster that it sounds like for him.

[kuangmk11]

Profiteer, on 27 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The problem comes down to the same thing that affects many of the weapons in this game: boating.

If they up the damage so that someone mounting 10-30 LRMs is actually effective, then a whole group of people will boat 60+ and start 1-2 shotting people. Then the forum QQs "LRMs-online", they get nerfed, etc etc.

I'm a boater because it works, but I think MWO would be a much more enjoyable game if there was some form of penalty for boating.

Whether this comes in the form of extra heat, or stopping it totally via small/medium/large hard-points, I don't know.

I just want them to do the damage they have listed. Trying to balance them comes after making them work correctly. Adjusting the number means nothing if the missiles don't do what they are suppose to in the first place.

Also missiles have their own built in boat limiter: tubes. Make it so you can't fire more than one missile through one tube at the same time, then play with the tube "cooldown"

[River Walker]

Unbound Inferno, on 27 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Eh, to each their own - talking to you River, no reason to act like a jerk about an honest question. I drive my Catapult fast and mobile(alot I imagine a Medium like a Trebuchet would be), and when I shoot at something like a Cataphract I am usually dancing with it for cover on the run. Speed and motion is a huge factor in this game as to how close you need to be to fire. So I was asking to be sure since I didn't read that distance in it at first.

The other reason I ask is my Catapults rely heavily on LRMs. My matches almost always deal 400+ damage when I last in them. 600+ isn't that uncommon actually. Moving targets almost always take more shots, but a slower mech or one standing still dies far faster that it sounds like for him.

I apologies did not mean to be a Butt head, just been reading the forum to much and took it out on you.
Sorry about that ,

[Unbound Inferno]

It happens, and sometimes you need to be reminded of it that's all. No harm done anyway.

[cyberFluke]

River Walker, on 27 May 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I apologies did not mean to be a Butt head, just been reading the forum to much and took it out on you.
Sorry about that ,

+1 For being a sound, reasonable person. Not enough of that in these parts

[ChallengerCC]

Lyoto Machida, on 27 May 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I was just playing my Treb with 2 LRM-15s and TAG earlier. Was launching in open ground from 350-400m away while tagging them. Shot almost 4 tons of missles at them at a fairly close range in unobstructed terrain and ended with like 86 and 129 damage...ridiculous. Then switched to my Stalker with 5 LRM-10s just to see. Was pounding mechs on Alpine from up above with clear LoS...ended the game with 380 damage. That game would have been 750+ before. Got tired of doing little damage with LRMs so I switched to my 6 LL Stalker 3F and immediately did a couple games of 500+.

No reason to take LRMs right now...SRMs are pretty crap as well at the moment.

As far as the Treb I was playing earlier, took off the LRMs and switched to 2 LPLs and an ERPPC and scored over 300 on the first game, so...

Like i discriped in my post before, i had the same situation. Tag+2xLRM 15, 500 rockets shot, 80% hit = 108 dmg

[MustrumRidcully]

cyberFluke, on 27 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Redo heat as Mustrum has been saying since about wave two of Beta, and boating becomes far less of a problem. But hey, what do the long time testers/players know, right?

1) Call me Jon Snow.
2) I actually had several ideas on heat and different ways to implement the, though they always shared one common theme - a lower capacity and a higher dissipation.

cyberFluke, on 27 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Redo heat as Mustrum has been saying since about wave two of Beta, and boating becomes far less of a problem. But hey, what do the long time testers/players know, right?

1) Call me Jon Snow.
2) I actually had several ideas on heat and different ways to implement the, though they always shared one common theme - a lower capacity and a higher dissipation.

[Lokust Davion]

typical PGI... they overbuffed then overnerfed with a hotfix.

[I am]

Just scored over 500 damage with a LRM Highlander. 55LRMs = easy kills all day long. You have to bring your own tag though.