58 replies to this topic

[Sagamore]

D-DC's don't make good missile boats since they'd have to sacrifice one of their 2 arm-mounted lasers as a TAG to be truly effective. I am currently running an AS7-D with 2 LL, 2 LRM15 (with Artemis), 1 TAG and 1 AC20 and am finding it to be quite successful. However, I've seen a few Atlases with just ERPPCs and LRMs which on Alpine might be okay but is pretty laughable on most other maps.

EDIT: though I should point out that my AS7-D W/L ratio is about 1.1 and my D-DC, primarily used as a brawler, is 3.0 so maybe the D is not as successful as I think.

Edited by Sagamore, 04 June 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[Writer]

Sephlock, on 26 May 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

How about you take a tag laser and spot for us instead ?

**** you. Does it look like I can strap 100 points of armor to my center torso? Get your *** on the front line and sit there at 300m like you're supposed to.

[Sephlock]

Stoicblitzer, on 27 May 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

self-entitled LRM D-DCs complaining about people not holding locks in a game where brawling is dead.

It wouldn't be dead if you guys held locks for us . its win-freaking-win!

[DocBach]

my D-DC has an ER PPC, a gauss rifle, 2 LRM15s with Artemis and a medium laser with ECM. Works pretty good, the idea is not to stand on the edge of the fight but be sort of the anchor of a formation. You want to keep the enemy at around 300m and hope your team screens the AC40 jagers from you. If they do that it puts out a lot of hurt.

[Stoicblitzer]

Sephlock, on 06 June 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

It wouldn't be dead if you guys held locks for us . its win-freaking-win!

lol nah we would be dead.

[Barberian]

DocBach, on 06 June 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

You want to keep the enemy at around 300m and hope your team screens

Must be nice in your fantasy world.

My experience most of the time - Medium 'Mech 1 and 2 run out after the light chasing it fruitlessly. Light mech 1 and 2 run out to cap and do who knows what. Heavy 'Mech 1 and 2 are busy sniping DIFFERENT 'Mechs across the map. Assault 'Mech 1 is trying to be a hero and walks out into the middle and quickly gets killed. If I try and stay with the "pack" which almost never stays together, I get eaten alive by enemy regardless of what I bring (assault - slow) because everybody is doing their own thing in different parts of the map.

So, I usually sit at the back of the pack before it splits up and try to support them. I shoot at an enemy already engaged to help melt if faster. The faster it melts, the sooner the "team" will converge on the same targets raising the probability we will win.

Shortly after the engagement begins in earnest, there is no pack, just a bunch of players doing their own thing. The rare occasions the pack stays together and WORKS TOGETHER, I stay within ECM range (my ECM umbrella over them). I need to stay back some to ensure a charging 'Mech stays at least 180M out. If it is any closer, I'm tossing snowballs at them. One Laser is pretty much useless. One AC is petty much useless. If I add much more, I'm no longer a LRM boat. I usually get 2-5 kills as strictly a LRM boat. Last night I got 6 kills in one match. Should I really trade in my lrm's for other things and be good at NOTHING because I've got my ranges and damage spread out? Useless with one laser up close. Useless with one AC up close or at range and take up a lot of LRM ammo space.

Please open up your minds, THINK for yourself. Just because someone plays a different 'Mech, style, uses a different loadout than you do doesn't not mean it is cr4p. Unless I end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, I usually get 2-5 kills, with the remainder as assists. I get 300-500 damage in a typical match. I've gotten over 1000 damage several times in a match, is this cr4p? My average would be higher if people kept target locks longer, but I don't mind. They are playing THEIR game, not mine. They are having FUN playing THEIR piece of the game. Let me play mine and don't flame me in game or in the forums. This is a GAME.

Should PGI make only one mech, with one load out? How fun would that be? "Well, this is the best mech we can make so we will only allow players to use this one".

Edited by Barberian, 07 June 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Sephlock]

Stoicblitzer, on 07 June 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

lol nah we would be dead.

But for a good cause .

[Flyby215]

Atlas, Highlander LRM boats make me sad. One of my most favourite things to do as an assault mech is to stand off with a dangerous opponent to protect my teammates. Many times I see a fresh Atlas round the corner, or an AC40 dueling some poor Hunchie at short range. Yeah, I can stand back with my PPC and Guass and safely snipe that enemy to death, but at the expense of my teammate? No way, I will charge headlong straight at that enemy guns ablazing, knowing full well my Misery's going to take a nasty beating, but I've got the armour and I'm saving my teammate.

Besides, no amount of armour will do any good if I'm the only one left alive and it's 8 vs me... but if I manage to save just one teammate, his firepower adds to mine and we take down that AC40 Jager before it gets it's last shot off, we now have 3 to tear apart that Atlas who wandered off alone, and without an Atlas meat shield the medums die so much faster.

(as a side-note here, don't go charging into their entire team! Covering that dumb-*** who ran straight into the enemy swarm is only going to make you look like a dumb-*** too)

That's not to say missile boats shouldn't have a role to play, rather, lets change it up. My missile boat gave up some of its blotting-out-the-sun ability in exchange for better short-range weapons; that way I can stay with the main group, take my share of the enemy fire, and anyone I see beyond 200m get the nasty brunt of both my missiles and secondary weapons. Personally I have much greater success with this strategy.

But, to each their own.

[Sephlock]

Flyby215, on 10 June 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Atlas, Highlander LRM boats make me sad. One of my most favourite things to do as an assault mech is to stand off with a dangerous opponent to protect my teammates.

Then they return the favor by shooting you in the back and/or suddenly developing ADD and running off to chase a butterfly or something.

[Hresvelgr]

I've used assault LRM-boats for some and can say they're quite viable in some builds (like Highlander with 4xLRM15 launcers or famous Stalker with missile tubes sticking out of all his chicken bodyparts), but there are 3 conditions: mech must have at least 1 good backup weapon (like large laser; even though I made surprisingly many kills even with single medium laser remaining on nearly dead mech); have balls to stay within 400-500 m of main scuffle point (or better 200-300 m to deliver damage as fast as possible and to it to the enemy, not to the terrain or friendly mech's backs) and darn team must learn to keep enemy they would like to see dead locked (sometimes I really wanted to kill those fools by dumbfiring missiles in their backs, my suspicions that they simply don't target enemy mechs they're fighting were confirmed by observations in spectator mode). In all other cases LRM assault most likely will be left alone to get swarmed by enemy in close range and in best case will kill 1-2 lighter or damaged mechs before falling. So I switched my D-DC and Highlanders to energy/ballistics build (Atlas - close/medium range; Highlander - long range + close range "point defence" against scouts like streak-SRMs (4 streaks really make those spider pilots about buying a better mech while falling in flames from mid-air)). Also, in case if drops will be matched by weight sometime it's actually better to use LRM-boats that are medium or heavy (Jagermech makes nice LRM-boat by the way, it's fragile, but even with XL 260 it's fast enough and can quickly reposition himself to where it's most needed while staying behind heavier mechs), because LRM assault in most cases won't do much agains brawler or sniper assault. Especially taking into account that people finally found out that there is a AMS thingy available in stores.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

I (t)roll in a Raven with Tag, target decay, BAP, ECM, Info Gathering, seismic and UAV.
If you cant get a lock-on with your missiles when im in the match, you shouldnt use LRMs.

And now, the constructive part of this post:
Regardless of having all these modules and electronic packages stacked on top of each other, Holding a target locked and/or TAG'd is really friggin hard due to the massive sniper presence in the current meta, even with decreased flight time i rarely am able to hold a lock for more than one volley.
To help us poor light mechs who are not always capping but often just hanging behind enemy lines to spot for you, please bring you own target decay module as it is no fun getting oneshot by a stalker just because the boats couldnt be arsed to fork out the cost for specializing in their role.

[StonedVet]

I carry an U/AC5 2 LL and LRM15/LRM10 + Art. in my DDC. I have 0 issues "brawling" Those who think that you sit back and shoot your LRM's from 900m letting everyone else do the work are narrow minded. You get in between 200-400m and get into the fight with them when you have them equipped with a balanced loadout. OP you are aware that most Assaults come stock equipped with LRM's right? didn't think so ...

[Smokeyjedi]

Tiger Shark, on 02 June 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Totally agree Barberian.
Just had a great experience running my dual AC20 Catapault in a PUG match with a LRM boat D-DC on the desert map.
The D-DC just hung out slightly behind me, so LRMs are always locked, and provided 2 targets.
The D-DC provided cover fire so I could get in range while evading PPC fire from rock to rock, by the time I closed, the target would have gotten softened by the LRMs and I'd finish it off with the AC20s.
When LRM is done well, is it incredibly effective, and makes every team mate's job easier.

I fell like LRMS finally are close-ish to where they should be, but that's my perception of what a long range support weapon should be, it has its trade offs, but is actually viable. nothing like whipping LRMS at an enemies face while you charge his flank(helps if he is currently occupied with a harasser or two ) , and time the salvos from LRMS,LL and gauss to land at one split second. Ouch!

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 11 June 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Asmosis]

Sitting way back in a lrm only boat is a silly idea. you should at least carry a tag, and stay within 100m or so of your team so that if *gasp* you get flanked its not automatically game over.

Get target decay as well so you can still hit mechs that run past buildings to break lock, with any luck they'll pop into sight for a split second and you get to keep lock.

Their damage is still a bit on the low side, but the 20% speed increase compensates a lot for it. doesn't need to go back to 1.7 or so, around 1.3 or 1.4 would be effective without packing 70+ tubes.

Edited by Asmosis, 11 June 2013 - 04:18 AM.

[Tiger Shark]

With the LRM damage increase, matches are starting to get into 2 phases:
1. The ER PPC / LRM long range bombardment usually starts things off.
2. Intentionally or accidentally by one team, a bigger brawl happens when a couple of mechs meet. Then a giant mech fur ball ensues.
The heavy and assault LRMers need to know when the rest of the team is in phase 2 and close range so that:
1. Better target lock as opposed to firing indirectly 900 meters away.
2. Present a scary target so not all the fire is focused on team mates with direct fire weapons.

[Shae Starfyre]

There is no definition I have ever seen of the word "Assault" that only means get in the enemies face.

Assaulting a position has more than one phase, and it usually starts with some form of bombardment (missiles in this case).

This is not to the boating concept, but having a well rounded Mech who can engage at multiple distances, an assault mech makes.

I am so tired of people thinking that an Atlas needs to speed to the front to be effective to the team; this, an assault mech, does not make.

Edited by Aphoticus, 12 June 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[Sephlock]

I've found that it's best to stay at a safe distance.

[Skunk Wolf]

Tiger Shark, on 26 May 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

It seems that a larger percentage of the Assaults and Heavies in the game now are pack on the LRMs. Usually just have a couple of lasers as backup or a couple of ERPPCs / Large Lasers for longer range work.
This means that assaults are no longer front of the line or more and more common, sitting in the back of the line. More than a few matches have ended with assaults with 95% health while the rest of the team got decimated, then the the inevitable back up while keeping 4 enemy mechs at over 180 meters which never ends well.
So if you are piloting one of these very heavy LRM mechs, let the rest of the team know you are LRM boating, and plan on sitting back at the beginning of the match so we know what to expect.

Even better, if there is a way for us to read out friendly mech load outs.

LRMS are still the most ineffective weapon on a ton per ton basis if you factor in the weight and liability of the ammo IMHO. Then factor in the puggers not maintaining lock and ECM.

Balistic and PPC are still king folks.

To Decimate: One person is randomly selected from each platoon/squad, his co-workers then tie him to a cross and break his bones with fencing mallets until he dies. One out of ten. When you say that it is decimated, it means that one in ten is dead. It's not as bad as destroyed.

Example of wrong usage: "Our culture will be decimated!" -What the hell does that even mean? Our culture is going to change by 10%?

Example of right usage: "That football team decimated the all you can eat buffet."- 10% of the buffet is just gone man, gone.

Seriously, someone got paid a lot of money to put one of those in a movie.

Sorry, you just brought back an unpleasant recent memory of a film.

Edited by Skunk Wolf, 12 June 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Aslena]

as an atlas in a pug it's hard to go out there and be the "meat shield" because 3/4 of the time when you start moving up everyone else moves back

[Vision]

To every single pilot in this thread who has commented that they prefer to stand on the front-line and DO THEIR JOB....I salute you.

They call them Assault mechs for a reason people. They are the front-line, both the sword and the shield and more often than not, the first to succumb to enemy fire.

My personal preference is of course to be the gigantic looming shadow of death over the enemy team...place myself in a position where i can divert incoming firepower from the enemy and place it on myself. Tactically this allows your team members to focus firepower on enemy targets without immediate repercussion.

The games are balanced around tonnage. If you LRM your Assault mech and play a ranged war then there is a 'potential' that the extra tonnage required to soak enemy fire will not be present where it is most likely needed most...in the brawling arena.

All things in perspective however, there is no law against it. I would however be surprised to see LRM's on Assault mech's in organised groups.

Edited by Vision, 12 June 2013 - 06:08 PM.