82 replies to this topic

[Chrithu]

Last time I checked my K2 was perfectly viable. Note, last check was yesterday for about 6 hours straight.

The Cat needs that weakspot to have any weakness at all. In my view it still is the best heavy chassis. Especially the K2. Thos high Arm mounts are just perfect for out of cover shooting.

Edited by Jason Parker, 27 May 2013 - 03:42 AM.

[627]

Kitane, on 27 May 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

P.S. Streakcat is a troll build and a waste of a 65t mech.

You're doing it wrong. Seriously without our loved kitty fluff, a streakcat is a threat you have to deal with, if not, you're dead pretty soon. If you make it priority target and focus your group on it, it has it's impact (essentially "tanking" for the rest of the team). If you don't focus you'll have a tough opponent.

[stjobe]

The Catapult.

Arguably the best, most viable heavy in the whole game - hell, it may just be the most viable 'mech in the game period.

There has never been a period in the last year or so when the Cat didn't have at least one not only viable, but borderline OP configuration to field.

It was LRMCats, StreakCats, SplatCats, PPCCats, GaussCats, BoomCats... You name the FOTM weapon, and the Cat could mount at least two - and have mobility, armour, speed, jump capability, and a crazy twisting torso as well.

These days, it's the BAPCat - the old StreakCat but with a BAP to ensure ECM won't interfere with their twelve CT-seeking Streaks. Kong made a very informative video of them dropping in eight BAPCats and obliterating any opposition, mostly by CT-coring them.

I just cannot agree with the premise of this thread; the Cat is viable, has always been viable, and most likely will continue to be viable.

Just don't try to run a LRMCat right now and you'll be fine.

[Kitane]

BAPCat isn't OP enough to warrant a huge cockpit weakness. It tickles enemies to death while trying to outlast and outmaneouver their much superior firepower.

Splatcat is pretty weak right now, it's good mostly for softening targets for other mechs. Even Blackjack can survive multiple salvos at point blank.

The only "cheesy OP" build that would be a reason for a cockpit weakness is a Boomcat and Jager does that much, much better. Jager does most things better than K2.

And ultimately, Catapult without viable LRM builds is broken, period. It will always be broken, because it's not a Catapult anymore.

[Vassago Rain]

Kitane, on 27 May 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

BAPCat isn't OP enough to warrant a huge cockpit weakness. It tickles enemies to death while trying to outlast and outmaneouver their much superior firepower.

Splatcat is pretty weak right now, it's good mostly for softening targets for other mechs. Even Blackjack can survive multiple salvos at point blank.

The only "cheesy OP" build that would be a reason for a cockpit weakness is a Boomcat and Jager does that much, much better. Jager does most things better than K2.

And ultimately, Catapult without viable LRM builds is broken, period. It will always be broken, because it's not a Catapult anymore.

I have hundreds of pictures proving you wrong.

[Lykaon]

The Catapult is a very nice mech and the chassis are extremely flexable in loadout choices. I would not call the Catapult a non-viable chassis by any reach of the imagination.

However,There may be a valid point to be made about the head hitbox of Catapults.

The large head hitbox was a design feature implimented before Hit State Rewind was added.With the code improvements weapons are becoming more accurate making what was a somewhat difficult shot an easy as pie killshot post Hit State Rewind.

The head hitbox on Catapults encompasses every pannel of cockpit glass on the mech making the Catapult head the largest by a huge margin and the most intuative to target.

Just thought I would put that out there as a possible reason for reducing cockpit sizes.

[CravenMadness]

I've been playing catapults since I started (granted that's only about a month or so ago now) and I've only ever been 'cockpitted' once and it completely caught me by surprise since the thing that did it was nowhere in my range of zoomed sight or radar. I can only guess they had the advanced zoom and nuked me with a bunch of er ppcs. So really, it's not exactly that prevalent (from what I've seen) to warrant a change to a solid mech. As was said before, don't stand still too long, fire over ridges with your big ears, and take the long way home when travelling so as not to walk into well known firing lanes, and keep your torso twisting even while you're walking through what you think is safe territory. Remember, it's not Paranoia if everyone really -is- out to get you.

[El Bandito]

Not gonna lie. Even if I feel that Catapults are fine, I still welcome cockpit reduction.

[KingCobra]

I'm glad they fixed the LRM'S now if they would just fix the SSRMS, and Streaks back I would be happy a 40 damage cat is just a shame. Of course they still work well with some paper tiger mechs?.

[Kitane]

It gets more frequent as you face more experienced players who know about Catapult's weakness and go for the cockpit on purpose.

It's purely random and usually unintended in lower ELO games but with the history of Boomcats and Splatcats, many people learned to go for the cockpit to kill it as quickly as possible. Even a good Jenner pilot can drop a Cat with two good hits, the cockpit hitbox is easy to reach even from sides.

[KingCobra]

Kitane, on 27 May 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

It gets more frequent as you face more experienced players who know about Catapult's weakness and go for the cockpit on purpose.

It's purely random and usually unintended in lower ELO games but with the history of Boomcats and Splatcats, many people learned to go for the cockpit to kill it as quickly as possible. Even a good Jenner pilot can drop a Cat with two good hits, the cockpit hitbox is easy to reach even from sides.

I agree 150% PGI has some of the worst damage calculations ever and there hitbox sizes are beyond a joke on some mechs you would think after this long and this much testing and feedback PGI could get it right but they turn a blind eye to the obvious fixes and make new mechs? Go figure!!!!!!!! there priorities are wacked but I guess when you pay off magazines to have them say your game is great you as a devs even start to believe the game is good and fixed hahahaha.

[NachoFoot]

Kitane, on 27 May 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

BAPCat isn't OP enough to warrant a huge cockpit weakness. It tickles enemies to death while trying to outlast and outmaneouver their much superior firepower.

Splatcat is pretty weak right now, it's good mostly for softening targets for other mechs. Even Blackjack can survive multiple salvos at point blank.

The only "cheesy OP" build that would be a reason for a cockpit weakness is a Boomcat and Jager does that much, much better. Jager does most things better than K2.

And ultimately, Catapult without viable LRM builds is broken, period. It will always be broken, because it's not a Catapult anymore.

Bingo!

K2? Jager does it better
C1,C4 - its like a Jager except with weaker missiles instead of ballistics. The only real energy weapon you can use is ML.
A1 - Just neuter its ears or cockpit. They decided to give this mech ONLY hardpoints on the arms. Not only that, but the arms are HUGE. What a waste of cbills.

[MustrumRidcully]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

A1 is definitely fine. K2 is mostly fine. C4 should always support. Dunno about C1.

I think the K2 is a bit obsolete compared to the Jagermechs. It can pretty much only do the builds the Jagermechs can also do. The only niche it had left was that of the high point arm mounted energy weapon, but we get a hero Jagermech for that now.
Since it has 2 hard points less than any Jagermech, it offers less build choices, so you're probably overall better off with a Jagermech chassis.

I'd probably give it 2 extra energy hard points in the ears. The days of the Heavy Medium Laser boat are over since the introduction of DHS, so that's not really a concern anymore.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 29 May 2013 - 12:22 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Nauht, on 26 May 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Maybe don't stand still?

But, that would require pressing more than one button and maybe even moving the mouse!

Edited by Roadbuster, 29 May 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[Lynx7725]

I run Jagers in my group right now, and over the last week I managed to headshot maybe 3 Catapults. All three are reflex shots, meaning I saw the Cat, maybe 200m out, one was face-hug range, reflexively put the pipper over the CT, and pulled the trigger.

Considering that trigger is tied to 2xAC20s, well...

All three are flukes. Pipper happened to be at the correct location, convergence was right, and the AC rounds decapitated the mech. Any high-burst build would do that. It's not so much the hit box is big, it's more like it just naturally falls a bit under the center mass (where people tend to aim) and is more likely to get hit. Given the current meta of high-burst builds, decap shots are to be expected.

[sarkun]

Catapult is perfectly fine as is. The large Head hitbox compensates for the very small side torso front profiles.

[Joseph Mallan]

NachoFoot, on 26 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Reduce the size of the cockpit head component. Its that simple yet so hard to do.


I counted the last 10 games in which I played and I died in 4 of them to head shots. I survived in 5 games. That leaves 1 game in which I was cored. Its time for a change PGI. After all, this is release...

Your head is smack dab in the center of your torso. You are expecting us to miss that?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 May 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Franchi]

Anything a K2 can do with energy weapons the Cataphract can do while running cooler, going faster and having JJ's, anything it can do with ballistics the Jagger can do better while still being able to aim up and down.

Anything that the C4/C1 can do a stalker can do better.

The A1 (my favorite mech 1,374,453 exp) is none viable in any configuration, as an SRM cats now damage every section of the enemy with every volley, 54 points of damage seems like alot, until you consider thats spread across eight sections with much of it missing, getting to point blank range no longer improves this

Streak cats are a joke, and about the only mech a SRM cat can still beat one on one running 8 of them in a wolf pack proves how pathetic they really are, not how effective the mech is.

As an LRM boat it lacks the tonnage to carry enough ammunition and carry back up SRM's SRM's are also a joke, as a re streak launchers.

Edited by Franchi, 29 May 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[Kitane]

sarkun, on 29 May 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

Catapult is perfectly fine as is. The large Head hitbox compensates for the very small side torso front profiles.

Why do you guys keep saying that huge CT that can be seen and hit from three sides is an advantage?

Vassago Rain, on 27 May 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

I have hundreds of pictures proving you wrong.

From old version of the game. And that 8man circus, which doesn't prove much about Catapult, only that typical 8man players aren't any better at gunnery than us, the dirty poor PUG peasants.

I do run Catapults almost exclusively. I've run tens of matches in Splatcat after latest SRM flight path "fix" and while it still does a lot of damage, it kills only slightly faster than a Streakcat. It just shaves armor from all parts of the enemy mech at once, while Streakcat slowly drills through CT. I doubt more than 12-15 missiles out of 36 actually hit CT

Heh, the current state of SRMs made me put together dual LBX K2, because that shrapnel poo gun is more effective than SRMs and still satisfies my close range ...needs.

Missile Cats might be a pain in large numbers, or when they can abuse their vertical firing angles. But I do fear them less than any decent Jager/K2/Cataphract build and they are without any doubt easiest to face. Unless I am in Splatcat, faultless SSRM aimbot gives them an edge at 150m+ and I am not that great with SRMs without HSR.

Edited by Kitane, 29 May 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Boogie Man]

Postumus, on 26 May 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

What most people don't seem to understand is that the Catapult is not a frontline brawler mech. There is a reason that all of the variants come stock with nothing but LRMs and medium lasers, or in the case the of the K2, PPCs. They are mobile, long range support mechs. You can kit them out like a brawler, and they have decent armor and STILL have excellent torso twist for a heavy, but they weren't really ever meant to be one.

Except for the fact Catapults still eat head shots from 500m away quite often.