39 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Cyke, on 28 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Hmm, you may have struck on something here.

When in need of free tonnage to mount extra weaponry, a lot of players tend to cut down on leg armor first.. often even when maintaining maximum armor on the head, arms and torso sections.

Furthermore, ammo stored in the legs will actually cut down on the amount of firepower needed to destroy the leg. You don't need to shoot all the way through that (probably unmaxed) armor AND structure, because ammo is likely to explode and do the job for you.
Scoring a critical on that leg-mounted ammo is good, because there's only six critical slots in each leg, and two of them are probably ammo bins (therefore 1/3rd of the slots are ammo).

Lastly, defensive torso twisting does nothing to protect the legs, especially in Assault 'Mechs with abysmal turning rates.


So in conclusion, if an Assault 'Mech mounts a lot of tons of weapons, and seems to be traveling at good speed (heavy engine), there's a good chance he doesn't have max leg armor.
And if a lot of those big guns have big ammo appetites, he probably has lots of ammo.. in the legs.


I'd still say the conventional wisdom holds that you should shoot for the CT (or RT on an Atlas), but you just may be on to something.

Ammo is not likely to explode. The devs said the chance for an ammo explosion is 10 %. (The chance for a Gauss Rifle explosion is 90 %, though).

That said - yes, skimping leg armor is a common sport. Sometimes, especialyl at longer range, it will happen that you hit the leg even if you didn't intend to. If you see it takes a lot of damage, you probably should consider going for the legs.

On Alpine, however, I would consider this cruel and unusual punishment.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Lights = Legs
Anything Else = Torso or location of the dangerous weapons

[Budor]

1. whatever is open/down to internals
2. wherever the scariest brawling weapons are
3. side torsos on XL candidates
4. ct/crotch
5. head on shutdown mechs
6. whatever i hit on lights

Rarely go for legs on anything but lights or if i somehow notice that they are stripped there.

[edit] On atlas and misery variants with a gauss i always go for that, almost tunneling, catched me a few times where i was shooting that torso furiously when 1-2 shots somewhere else wouldve killed the mech in question.

Edited by Budor, 28 May 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Zordicron]

In regards to Atlas: I shoot them in the back. Same for HGN if I can, though for what it is worth, seems like HGN tends to react to that quicker then an atlas, not sure why. Otherwise shooting an Atlas while it's looking right at you? Are you mental? Too many matches in your PPC Stalker? Flank!

Jager also eats it from the back, otherwise I pick one side or the other and aim for the side torso general area. if I hit some arm or CT thats ok too, but cutting the firepower in half makes a big difference in a jager effectiveness.

Bout the only time I try to aim for legs is on centurians. The chassis just wont die otherwise, and the legs are huge, and fairly easy to hit one or the other even at higher speeds.

it's funny, this thread comes up fairly often, written like it's some new genius move to leg a mech. Really, the best place to shoot a mech is wherever you can shoot it without getting shot back at, and this rule is followed by trying to hit the same location.

[Rhent]

Zerberus, on 28 May 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

This is not entirely correct, specifically on the Atlas, as the front torso hitboxes can also be hit from the rear (the "bulges" on the left and right waists, i.e. teh srm tubes and Ballistic barrel, respectively. Again, nobody except maybe another Atlas shoots for CT on an Atlas, that is already the first mistake.



I have to disagree. If he`s a good pilot, he will ignore you completely and turn his attention to someone that presents a credible threat (ie. not shooting at his legs). Again, I don`t know who was shooting my legs, didn`t care, and teh results speak for themselves. 4:1 KDR in that match, with over 800 dmg done by myself.


AAAH, now I think I see what`s going on, please correct me if I`m wrong.. you play a ranged build and leg (brawler) atlases that are green and /or stupid enough to not understand that they need to use cover until they are 270m or less away. I was assuming a "fair" engagement, and not an obviously one side one. Most brawlers are useless beyond 500m, and have no business even seeing you at 800. That`s what scouts are for.

No discredit meant to you, but shooting fish in a barrel is always easy. A brawler out in the open is an ***** that deserves to die slowly and painfully, and legging him first is a great way to teach him the lesson of "Use cover on approach".

The people that understand that on the other hand will not even show up on your screen until they are in SRM range, and if you decide to shoot their legs as was the case yesterday in my example, they will proceed to assassinate half of your team while you do so. Becasue they know they can if they can aim.

Um no. A sniper build that is played right can easily leg an Atlas at range. All you have to do is go to the sides while the Atlas is engaging a target. It's called patience and shooting when you got a shot. Even fighting in Frozen city, there are plenty of opportunities to hobble an assault. An assault moving at 13 Kph is an easy kill for lights.

I'm simply stating what I saw with a switch in tactics. For most Assaults, its not necessarily ideal, however it still works on Assaults. For Heavies on down its brutal. I've always placed a lot more on mobility than firepower and with the recent change to mobility, I suggest everyone take advantage of legging. It works exceedingly well.

[Zerberus]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Um no. A sniper build that is played right can easily leg an Atlas at range.

You ignoring my points and restating yours does not make mine less valid. It only means you cannot see past your side and simply seek for everybody to agree with you.

A BRAWLER exposing himself to a sniper at range is an ***** and deserves to die a horrible, humiliating death. Period.

Anyone carrying 3+ SRM racks and an AC20 is a brawler whether they (or you) want to admit ot or not.

Try the same thing against an Atlas RS with 4 ppcs (or 4 LLS) and a Gauss... It gets a lot harder when the enemy can effectively fire back.

And that is the point you so seem to be missing, now in the company of "You cannot outflank what you cannot see", especially since you did not "correct" my assumption about range builds vs brawlers despite me asking you to if it was false, but further supported it with your post.

TLDR: You`re a sniper that likes to leg assaults but doesn`t understand that not all assaultsa will charge you on open ground, especially not thiose with intelligent pilots. Nor do you care to understand it, you just want everyone to shoot for the legs to make your job easier.

What started off as a meaningful discussion (in the Wrong forum, BTW) is therefore slowly becoming nothing more than a bad troll attempt.

Edited by Zerberus, 28 May 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[scJazz]

Cyke, on 28 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Scoring a critical on that leg-mounted ammo is good, because there's only six critical slots in each leg, and two of them are probably ammo bins (therefore 1/3rd of the slots are ammo).

So in conclusion, if an Assault 'Mech mounts a lot of tons of weapons, and seems to be traveling at good speed (heavy engine), there's a good chance he doesn't have max leg armor.
And if a lot of those big guns have big ammo appetites, he probably has lots of ammo.. in the legs.

From what I've learned so far... actuators don't take crits at all so if there is ammo in the legs and a crit occurs there is a 100% chance the ammo goes kaboom!

[M0rpHeu5]

Canturion cicada and lights: legs
Catapult: head
Hunchie: right torso
rest: CT and some heavy gun disableing

[Slab Squathrust]

Jackpoint, on 28 May 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

stupidly op SRM's to decimate the core.

I hope this one in particular was a joke. SRMs are in need of a buff if anything...

[bloodnor]

redreaper, on 28 May 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

i find that highlander poptarts rip loads of armour off their legs leg emm and they can hop all they want they are gonna die.

SHUSH!!!! don't give the secret away

I don't poptart but i do use my jump jets a lot. i don't own any PPC's

Edited by bloodnor, 28 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Homeless Bill]

I'll usually test legs if I can just to see if they skimped. Aside from that, I'll often go for legs on 'mechs with ammo.

I also like playing a fun game with my clan called Leg 'Em and Leave 'Em where we're not allowed to kill enemies until all remaining enemies are legged.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

scJazz, on 28 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

From what I've learned so far... actuators don't take crits at all so if there is ammo in the legs and a crit occurs there is a 100% chance the ammo goes kaboom!

If there's a crit to the ammo then the ammo is destroyed. When ammo is destroyed it has a small chance to explode. The Gauss has a very high chance to explode (90%), but the damage it deals is quite a bit lower than most ammo bins (though I've still killed people with a popped Gauss before).

Regarding legs:

Before I shoot somebody I glance at his damage readout. If he's fresh all over then I evaluate his load-out. If he's got a Gauss I often prioritize that, since it's easy to kill and has a good chance for bonus damage. If he's got too many guns and still moves fast I target a side torso for his XL (especially if he's got a Gauss there, since you can often get a super fast kill by popping the gun which in turn takes out the engine).

I mostly go for legs if I see that they've already taken damage (enough to make them more tempting targets than the torsos). Also, lights make for excellent leg-shot candidates. I can't tell you the number of light v light duels I've won by double-legging the enemy while he's busy firing at my torso and arms.

Still, legging other builds is often a bad idea. Legs have huge amounts of armor available. Shaving off a quarter-ton from each leg isn't a big deal, even on a light, since that's a whole 8 points from each leg. An atlas that's down a half ton taken from the legs is still at 73 points or thereabouts, which is going to be more than the side torsos have even if the rear armor is very low (unless they're down to 11 points on the rear sides, in which case a light will blow right through them for an easy kill).

Sure, legs usually have ammo, but I've never died to a leg ammo explosion (I've died to a CT ammo explosion once in an Atlas, but that's it). I tend to run out of ammo or die outright before my ammo bins get shot up, and even when they do the chance for the ammo to explode is small.

The signs to watch for are if a mech takes incidental leg damage and its armor goes from untouched to orange or red. If that happens he's stripped too much armor and you should aim low. If it stays yellow then odds are he'll be busy killing you while you work on legging him since it'll take you too long to finish the job, and that's assuming he isn't turning his legs to protect the one you've been shooting.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 28 May 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Joanna Conners]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

So if you want to get easy kills what would you aim at?

I recently decided to switch tactics for a few matches and go for legs exclusively. The difference was startling. Getting kills was about 50% easier. About the only mechs I'd think second of legging would be the Atlas or Highlander, and even then if I see them with heavy missile or autocannon, I'm switching to the legs to get easy ammo explosions.

And if someone has half a brain and uses C.A.S.E.?

[Rhent]

Demona, on 28 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

And if someone has half a brain and uses C.A.S.E.?

CASE is RT/LT only. And Ammo crits aren't that important. Its easier to remove legs because you can't torso turn to avoid damage, its always there. A smart pilot will roll when getting hit to prevent a torso from being concentrated on. There is nothing you can do to protect your legs other than take cover.

If you are in a high enough ELO bracket, Torso rolling is standard for everyone who wants to live.

[Joanna Conners]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

CASE is RT/LT only. And Ammo crits aren't that important. Its easier to remove legs because you can't torso turn to avoid damage, its always there. A smart pilot will roll when getting hit to prevent a torso from being concentrated on. There is nothing you can do to protect your legs other than take cover.

If you are in a high enough ELO bracket, Torso rolling is standard for everyone who wants to live.

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

CASE is RT/LT only. And Ammo crits aren't that important. Its easier to remove legs because you can't torso turn to avoid damage, its always there. A smart pilot will roll when getting hit to prevent a torso from being concentrated on. There is nothing you can do to protect your legs other than take cover.

If you are in a high enough ELO bracket, Torso rolling is standard for everyone who wants to live.

Ah, right. I wasn't even considering people putting ammo in the legs. My mind was elsewhere.

You mean torso twisting, right? That's been standard for over twenty years. ELO bracket be hanged.

[One Medic Army]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Correct on the Atlas, but again it depends on his load out. If he's sporting an AC/20 + 3 SRM6 w/ Artemis, you can bet your bippy he has rounds in his legs. Meanwhile, any Atlas pilot worth his salt will be spinning his torso to spread that focused damage from his CT to his Arms and other Torsos. Spinning your torso does nothing for their legs. So instead of waiting for the CT to be exposed, you can do twice the damage to his always exposed legs.

I'd agree, except that leg ammo only has a 10% chance to explode, which is too low to make it pay off much.
Then again, from what I understand of the new lost leg penalties it makes it super-easy to backshoot someone afterwards.

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

CASE is RT/LT only. And Ammo crits aren't that important. Its easier to remove legs because you can't torso turn to avoid damage, its always there. A smart pilot will roll when getting hit to prevent a torso from being concentrated on. There is nothing you can do to protect your legs other than take cover.

If you are in a high enough ELO bracket, Torso rolling is standard for everyone who wants to live.

Well, if we're following the TT CASE rules properly then a side torso CASE will prevent a leg explosion from propagating through the attached side torso into the CT, so you'd only mostly kill them.

Edited by One Medic Army, 28 May 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[King Arthur IV]

Rhent, on 28 May 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Or your playing in an ELO bracket where people stand still too much or charge mechs head on without torso turning or serpentining. You can't do that with exposed legs.

it was a joke hence the smily face. i dont know anyone that really plays to head shot. in reality i shoot for arms to un-arm them.

[Corbon Zackery]

FYI People who use AC 20 and LRM normally store ammo in the legs.

Unless your a light mech since everyone shoots for the legs of light mechs.

[Franchi]

I use jump jets to spread damage to my up armored legs.

[Taemien]

Holy christ people, if you start going for the legs on mechs, the clanners out there are going to throw a fit. In MWLL we had multiple 20+ page (I think one 40+) threads about people tearing into each other about legging. It was way more intense than even the cap vs assault threads or ecm vs missile threads here. And their community was under a couple of hundred strong.

The QQ would be immeasurable here.

Not that legging is super super effective. But... it annoys the crap out of people.. You know what, screw it.. make'm cry lol.