65 replies to this topic

[Lynx7725]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 29 May 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

no way. 2 lrm 15 scratch paint right now.

2 LRM15 do about 25 points of damage, spread across 8 locations (assuming frontal and no weird "hit the back" stuff). That's 3 points a location.

In comparison by tabletop, 2 LRM15s would result in 18 points of damage, in 4 locations (cluster of 5/5/4/4). So firstly, it's supposed to scratch paint. Secondly, it's working more or less as intended.

LRMs were never designed to be dominant on the TT. It is meant as a sandpaper weapon, to reduce the armour from range so that close-in weaponry can have an easier time. The translation at the moment to MWO does feel about correct.

[Scryed]

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

2 LRM15 do about 25 points of damage, spread across 8 locations (assuming frontal and no weird "hit the back" stuff). That's 3 points a location.

In comparison by tabletop, 2 LRM15s would result in 18 points of damage, in 4 locations (cluster of 5/5/4/4). So firstly, it's supposed to scratch paint. Secondly, it's working more or less as intended.

LRMs were never designed to be dominant on the TT. It is meant as a sandpaper weapon, to reduce the armour from range so that close-in weaponry can have an easier time. The translation at the moment to MWO does feel about correct.

MWO will feel fine when ALL weapons have a longer cooldown, doesn't have to be 10 secs but 5 secs should be the min. And this double armor mess, if you think this game is fine its already gone the way of mw4, and thats poptarting

[Lynx7725]

Scryed, on 29 May 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

MWO will feel fine when ALL weapons have a longer cooldown, doesn't have to be 10 secs but 5 secs should be the min. And this double armor mess, if you think this game is fine its already gone the way of mw4, and thats poptarting

Eh, you do realise that most weapons can fire twice in 10s, and we have double armour, means effectively we're back to TT values? Except for heat, which is an annoyance.

I won't say PGI got everything right, but the balance between playability and sticking to canon, I think they walked a fairly nice line that balances the two. Even the ECM thing, which in canon wasn't that prevalent? End effect is that we see a lot more direct fire and sneaky gits, which turns out to be along canon lines.

I know I'm ragging the "TT" and "canon" thing a bit, but let's face it, it's "Mechwarrior". It sorts of have to pay some service to the canon/ TT. Otherwise we can just call it Battledroid and just go pew pew each other to death in game.

[YueFei]

LRMs feel overwhelming when multiple enemy mechs mass fire them at you while a wily light mech spots for them. It's essentially getting focus-fired, even though you denied LOS to all of the launching mechs, because the light mech has you painted.

When something like that happens, either you find some very tall and sturdy cover, or you somehow manage to kill the enemy light mech FAST, or you close within 180 meters of the LRM mechs, or you die. Maybe if you're a light mech that's short enough you can go underwater. =P

It's a totally unintuitive situation compared to maneuvering to deny LOS to mechs armed with direct-fire weapons. At least there, you can move in a way that denies LOS to most enemies.

A single mech launching a meager salvo of LRMs isn't that big a deal. It does some damage, yes, but it's not overpowered.

[kuangmk11]

IMO LRMs just need to go back to pre-splash values and have their cockpit effects reduced to about 1/4. Right now they are about worthless. I wont carry them and the only reason I retreat from them is the cockpit shake.

[Sougard]

I pilot an AWS-8R with 4 ALRM 15 and tag. It takes exactly four tagged salvos to core an Atlas from the front, cherry red internals after the third. Three to kill a slow heavy.

Protip: don’t stare dreamily at the incoming missiles. Turn your mech and let your side take them. First, some of missiles will miss because of how the new flight pattern works, second, all damage won’t go into your CT.

[Kitane]

LRMs seem "effective" on assault mechs equipped with silly amount of missiles (60+), because even current wetballs can hurt when fired in large quantities.

As long as assault mechs can equip 60+ LRM launchers without major disadvantages like crawling speed or reduced armor or heavy overheating, LRMs will always be either too weak or too strong.

[Livewyr]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 29 May 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

no way. 2 lrm 15 scratch paint right now.

That is a bald faced lie!

Gotta be some seriously cheap paint.

[w0rm]

I'd like to buy those LRM's you are talking of kind Sir.

[Shadowsword8]

I don't think LRM are too strong right now. They might even use a small damage boost.

However, I hate their current flight path. Hugging a cover half again you size will do nothing, their attack run is way too steep.

I don't think LRM are too strong right now. They might even use a small damage boost.

However, I hate their current flight path. Hugging a cover half again you size will do nothing, their attack run is way too steep.

[PostalPatriot]

Lynx7725, on 29 May 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

[/size]
Splash creates a bit more problems than solutions IMO, so to keep things simple I'd just remove splash.
.

Keep in mind the splash effect is already there just not how people are thinking it, it's the spreading of missiles and where they hit that represent that. Now having just returned from a break from the glory days of lens these feel pretty good. Yes you will get punished if you do something dumb. Like charge out in the open in an assault. That's just asking for it, but with smart play you can almost allways negate all if not half of a salvo.

Btw tag + narc really mauls people and it bloody should makes my raven feel like a real support mech.

[Mizore]

LRMs too strong? What kind of **** are you smoking?

LRMs have never been so weak than they are now.
The only way they really do hurt someone is when you massively boat them in an assault mech, using Artemis and Tag and shoot on standing or slowly moving targets.
Everything else is not worth of using and is a total waste of tonnage.

I tried to use my Founders Catapult the last days but mostly with my 2x ALRM15 I do way less damage over the whole match than I do when shooting a little bit with my 4 MedLasers.
The Catapult C1, which you usually would see as a classic LRM mech is so in a disadvantage due to the way LRMs work at the moment, especially concerning TAG, because you can't0 pitch the center0 torso up and down very much.
When you want to target enemy mechs that are below or above you, you just can't use TAG... and if the enemy has ECM, you're totally screwed.
Most other mechs have no problem with this, because they have energy weapon slots in their arms and thus are superior.

Edited by Mizore, 30 May 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[Kampfer]

LRMs without TAG or NARC arn't worth using, WITH tag and NARC they are too be truly feared. I can't tell you how awesome it was to literally watch a team duck for cover when a lucky group of pugs included 2 light mechs with tag and me with a tag and NARC and 2 LRM boats. Things fell down or hid.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

LRM's are great against opponents with no situational awareness, or are just lazy. But even then you'd be better with PPC's.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 30 May 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Burpitup, on 29 May 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

i don't concider myself really good. i pug every match. All i am saying is i have been doing way more damage with my LRM boats than i ever have before. I have been playing this for at least six months now. before if i was not in an atlas i would average 200 to 350 damage a game. in my atlas i can do 400 to 600 a game sometimes 800+. with my 3 LRM 15's i am doing 400 to 500 and one time i did almost 1000 damage. . I have never had that good with LRMS before. Call it luck or what ever but they are hard to miss with right now in my opinion.

LRM's are nowhere near as strong as they were at their peak right now. They only hit hard if you have artemis, line of sight, and tag on the target. Otherwise damage is inferior to many of the better direct fire weapons.

[Bilbo]

Otto Cannon, on 29 May 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Epic!!!
As to LRM's, they seem to be ok to me. AMS and cover are your friends.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vodrin Thales, on 30 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

LRM's are nowhere near as strong as they were at their peak right now. They only hit hard if you have artemis, line of sight, and tag on the target. Otherwise damage is inferior to many of the better direct fire weapons.

Even then they are messed up. 3 LRM 20's with LOS, Artemis, TAG, etc. I had like 4 kills and 4 assists because the entire team was running around below me. Went through 8 tons of ammo. And was using a Large Laser as well. But I only did 400-500 damage, all I was doing was stealing kills.

When I use 2 ER PPC and a Gauss, I do 300 damage in the first 2 minutes of engagement. Without any of the extra crap that comes along with being an LRM user.

[scJazz]

Koniving, on 29 May 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Btw, if you want missiles that can go over the pillars in Tourmaline and hit the snipers on top, stay outside of 750 meters. They go straight up into the air and come straight down at 85 to 100+ degree angles hitting them in the face or even in their backs. Yes, that is with the "fixed" flight paths.

This datum is very useful! Muahahahaha!

[Koniving]

scJazz, on 30 May 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

This datum is very useful! Muahahahaha!

Indeed. Knew they go higher at that range from using missiles. Found out that they go right over those pillars as the sniper, where the missiles kept going over my head and INTO MY BACK! O_O! I finally started turning around to soak the missiles into my front as they fly overhead and practically U-turn. Frustrating.

[Bobdolemite]

IMO most of the time people dont even pay attention to missiles after the most recent hotfix. I have promptly removed them from every build that I had attached them to when I got tired of doing 300 damage with 1440 lrms costing me 3/4 of the weight in my build.

For me fighting against them falls into two categories:

1.) When you notice them:

The only time I notice LRMS is if half or more of the enemy team is lobbing 40+ salvos. This pins your team down and punishes anyone stupid enough to try to close over open ground at greater than say 300 meters. Theres nothing broken about this, LRMS are support and area of denial. if you stand still behind half cover in this situation or dont make the right choices be prepared to die.

2.) When you dont notice them:

Anytime someone launches less than 40 missiles at you, at its current dynamic they get eaten up by AMS, Cover, The ground, you name it. Even if they are on target over open ground the accuracy is something like <40 leaving the damage at a despicably low level (the whole not worth it argument) LRM 5 and 10 are basically worthless as well and can be ignored mostly.

In the current meta people who want to use LRMS are forced to boat them for effectiveness, Overall though I would say that most people have moved back to their snipers. I am again waiting patiently for a missile fix that does not overpower or underwhelm them (IMO the only issue missiles had on the 21st was the angle of attack, but they addressed that and splash for some reason)