86 replies to this topic

[Skyfaller]

Medium mechs have little to no chance in this game because any mech, medium and bigger can and do 1 or 2 shot alpha strike them.

I fear a spider a lot more than any medium (except cicada since their hitboxes are so wonky).


The problem lies with the alpha boating and convergence mechanics.

You should have a heat penalty for firing 2 or more of the same kind of weapon at once (energy weapons since ballistics already pay dearly in weight, slot, heat and ammo).

Convergence should not be instant and automatic.

Convergence should work only for arm mounted weapons. Torso mounted weapons should always be straight-forward firing with no convergence.

[FupDup]

Unless you're a zombie Cent that is.



Part of the problem is that Cents and Trebs are both as tall as assault mechs. Treb can even see eye-to-eye with an Atlas FFS.

[Divine Madcat]

Skyfaller, on 30 May 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Convergence should work only for arm mounted weapons. Torso mounted weapons should always be straight-forward firing with no convergence.

Why?

There is no reason why torso mounted weapons cant be on gimbles. Sure, aiming 5 feet in front of you is a bit off, but it only needs 10-15 degrees to make almost any of the shots.

[xRaeder]

Divine Madcat, on 30 May 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Why?

There is no reason why torso mounted weapons cant be on gimbles. Sure, aiming 5 feet in front of you is a bit off, but it only needs 10-15 degrees to make almost any of the shots.

If you look at some of the original Mech designs from Battletech... yes the lasers, even the torso mounted ones, were on gimbles.

[LordBraxton]

I find centurions easy to core IDK why ppl ***** about them being extra tough

but yeah mediums have sucked since the SRM nerf

the one where they went from 2.5 to 1.5 thats like 40% of a medium mechs damage GONE

[jper4]

i've been doing better of late with my mediums. whether that's because i've figured out how to use them properly, my Elo is low, or no one pays any attention to mediums (except lights and other mediums) because they;re not seen as a threat. but been getting more damage and better k/d the last few weeks. i do run into some trouble with my slower varients but any of the ones i can break 90kph on have been fine. hunchy 4sp and trebbie 3c for the most part- starting to get the hang of the Blackjack 1x too.

[Burpitup]

i have been in the top 2 or 3 every match with my blackjack 3. people leave me alone because i am little and not a threat. Med platforms are pretty good if you don't have a problem with being the main battle mech.

[Darvaza]

Treb's and Cent's are too tall and need to be shorter. I enjoy the Treb's and want a hero mech but I find myself playing other things more useful on the battlefield.

[LordBraxton]

Darvaza, on 30 May 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Treb's and Cent's are too tall and need to be shorter. I enjoy the Treb's and want a hero mech but I find myself playing other things more useful on the battlefield.

If I was roleplaying

I would be a trebuchet pilot.

Thats how much I just love the chassis

But I always use something bigger because I feel like a hindrance to my team

I feel like my cataphracts\highlanders\stalkers reach 600-700 damage in a solid game, whereas my trebuchet only reaches those numbers in a PERFECT game

[Blacke]

I maintain over a 2.0 kill to death ratio with my CN9-AL and regularly score 600 to 900 damage a battle. I think people underestimate medium mechs.

Lights = Scouts and Harrassers
Mediums = Flankers and Strikers
Heavies = Main Battle Mechs
Assaults = Weapons Platforms

[aniviron]

Trebs and cents are gigantic, and hunchbacks have no weapons if you have the brains to aim for the massive, lightly-armored SHOOT ME box. Blackjack is a decent platform, but it doesn't have enough weapons to play a combat role without an XL engine, and it doesn't go fast enough to scout (as though scouting were a legit way to play this game at all, but that's a different balance issue). The only one that really has a home is the cicada, but it's just an oversized light, and does the jenner's job but not quite as well- a JR7-F can take the same weapons loadout, armor load and move at the same speed (speed cap) with a marginally better cooling efficiency while having a smaller hitbox to boot.

And yes, OP is correct about the speed, size, and armor factor. I am tempted to just disconnect every time alpine comes up because there is just nowhere to hide, and a medium chassis just cannot take a pounding at 800m. Here is my mech after getting hit twice; this is why nobody plays medium:

[Sephlock]

^ Nobody whose brain has not been flooded by so many stress hormones for so long that they have become delusional and think they're zombies, anyway.

[LordBraxton]

Blacke, on 30 May 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I maintain over a 2.0 kill to death ratio with my CN9-AL and regularly score 600 to 900 damage a battle. I think people underestimate medium mechs.

Lights = Scouts and Harrassers
Mediums = Flankers and Strikers
Heavies = Main Battle Mechs
Assaults = Weapons Platforms

I play a heavy like a flanker\striker

my cataphracts have 4.0 kdrs

my stalker 3f has a 6.0 kdr

you know what kdr means?

nothing

so I am real sick of people quoting their kdrs as "PROOF' that something is OK or BALANCED

[Tincan Nightmare]

LordBraxton, on 30 May 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

I find centurions easy to core IDK why ppl ***** about them being extra tough

but yeah mediums have sucked since the SRM nerf

the one where they went from 2.5 to 1.5 thats like 40% of a medium mechs damage GONE

Honestly if mediums require a specific weapon system to be useful, then they are broken. You are right that SRM's gave mediums a good punch up close, but many popular designs from BT in the medium class didn't carry them at all. The Phoenix Hawk, Enforcer, Vindicator (well it had an LRM5 so I guess you could mechlab it to have SRM's), Crab, Hatchetman.... If SRM's are the only thing that can make mediums useful, then something really is broken about them.

[King Arthur IV]

convergence is definitely a problem in this game. i feel that mech chassis/variant are no different from one another due to how convergence is set right now. projectiles need to fire in the general direction of their allocated area. this would make every mech unique from one another.

[Sable Dove]

Blacke, on 30 May 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I maintain over a 2.0 kill to death ratio with my CN9-AL and regularly score 600 to 900 damage a battle. I think people underestimate medium mechs.

Lights = Scouts and Harrassers
Mediums = Flankers and Strikers
Heavies = Main Battle Mechs
Assaults = Weapons Platforms

Lights = Cappers/Harrassers (scouting is virtually pointless currently).
Mediums = Meat shields (slow mediums are far outclassed by heavies, and the Cicada by lights)
Heavies = Flankers/support
Assaults = Main Battle Mechs (rarely do I play a game where there's fewer than 3 or 4 Assaults per team)

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

OP is wrong. Mediums are great for support. if enemy assault focuses on fast medium he well be cored by friendlies in no time. Cents are not easy to core unless the cent gives you his CT, which happens rarely in my experience. Mediums do not have the role they were meant to have atm, but they are far from useless in proper hands. Sure if you go geronimo that HM will pop you in no time.

[Skyfaller]

Blacke, on 30 May 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I maintain over a 2.0 kill to death ratio with my CN9-AL and regularly score 600 to 900 damage a battle. I think people underestimate medium mechs.

Lights = Scouts and Harrassers
Mediums = Flankers and Strikers
Heavies = Main Battle Mechs
Assaults = Weapons Platforms

The problem with that is this game does not conform to TT 'roles' of the mechs.

Mediums as flankers and strikers.. umm.. not in this game. Yes, they can use their speed to flank and yes they can use their speed to strike .. but they do so in an environment where one or two alpha strikes kills them. They do not have the superb speed of lights nor are they small like lights...they get hit very hard, quick. I've tried HIDING after flanking the enemy and waiting for them to engage my team..and strike via hit & run any mech that is fighting one of my team-mates on the perimeter... know what happens? I strike once or twice and then some enemy mech 500m away happens to see me and takes a snapshot at me with its alpha and... my armor goes from 100% to deep red in one hit.

The issue is... a blackjack with its biggest engine can reach just over 100kph. That engine size means its weaponry is reduced. In contrast, I can load a jager with four times the firepower, carrying twice the armor...and running at 90'ish kph.

Did I mention lights have the same armor as mediums? Kind of weird isn't it?

Mediums need to be given a real niche in this game. Real time first person shooter game throws most TT roles out the window.

Perhaps the mediums could be given similar engine speed multipliers that lights receive..not as much but more than what they have now. Mediums could also be given a boost to heat capacitor size...making them be bigger lights but with a bigger ability to sustain their fire.

So if you were to compare a 6 energy jenner with a 6 energy blackjack (same weapons/engine/HS# equipped) under the above mentioned medium perks:

- The blackjack would be running 10kph slower than the jenner.
- The blackjack would be able to fire 2 more alphas than the jenner before overheating.

[Butane9000]

I disagree that they are useless. You just cannot use them the same way as you can the heavier mechs (Phract, Pault, Orion, Jager / Assaults).

If you use your medium to support assaults and take shots of opportunity you'll find you do a lot better. With the Hunchback and Centurions you have to learn to move your torso to take the damage in non-critical areas. The Centurions great in this regard to it's left arm shield. The Trebuchet is obviously more of a support unit but you can use it as a good JJ or hit and run unit with the right builds. Cicada is more of a scout or "heavy light" then it is a medium. And the new blackjack is tough to get down with it's odd weight but can be used to great effect with the right build. It's also a jump jet capable medium you can use both PPCs, Gauss and AC20's with.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mediums are in such a bad place right now I played two matches tonight and logged off in disgust. What's worse are poor Commandos. 1 alpha and the leg is gone, then you're dead. GG pgi, mmos are not your strong suit.