391 replies to this topic

[Thomas Covenant]

If I'm wrong, then it is only me who has anything to lose by relaxing my position in this thread. It's not some source I need to quote to prove any point I've been making, but yes I would love to find them because it would be reassuring to me.

lol

[Thomas Covenant]

Back to the question. Are there atleast some of my suggestions you would find acceptable? Allow them to keep their salaries? I'm assuming you have the link :-D

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Pater Mors]

"One Mech to rule them all."

After reading through the last few pages I can say with certainty that you're not even talking about P2W.

1) If you can afford to pay for the internet, electricity and a computer to run this game on you can afford to buy at least some MC.
2) Whether or not you're 'best' mech is a hero or not is irrelevant to P2W because none of the MC only Mechs have any specific overwhelming advantages that are unavailable to c-bill only chassis.
3) Even paying a considerable amount of money towards this game does not guarantee victory as all the founders that have fallen under mine and other 'freeloaders' guns can attest.

You keep trying to use analogies (not metaphors) to prove your point but I will draw you back to one made earlier in this thread:

Gladiator A has a sword and a wooden shield. Gladiator B has an AR-15 Assault rifle with explosive tipped bullets and a bandoleer of hand grenades and a button that automatically freezes Gladiator A on the spot.

What you are arguing about is not P2W. You are arguing that it's unfair that everyone doesn't get access to the same Mechs because some people might never get to try them and might never fulfil their potential (it's like some lesson from some insane Disney movie full of 100 ton death machines).

To that I say; suck it up and spend some money.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

If I'm wrong, then it is only me who has anything to lose by relaxing my position in this thread. It's not some source I need to quote to prove any point I've been making, but yes I would love to find them because it would be reassuring to me.

Your points, correct me if I'm wrong;

1) Every player is an individual

2) Every player should have access to all mech since that particular mech could be just the one for that individuals playstyle

3) Thus it is pay 2 win because not everyone has access to that mech which has unique hardpoints that could fit that individuals playstyle (but is still balanced or even UP compared to C-Bill variants)


I have no problem with your suggestions. I do have a problem demanding them on false premises.

[The Platypus]

IV Amen, on 02 June 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Your points, correct me if I'm wrong;

1) Every player is an individual

2) Every player should have access to all mech since that particular mech could be just the one for that individuals playstyle

3) Thus it is pay 2 win because not everyone has access to that mech which has unique hardpoints that could fit that individuals playstyle (but is still balanced or even UP compared to C-Bill variants)


I have no problem with your suggestions. I do have a problem demanding them on false premises.

This.

To the OP, I understand that some players are incapable of making online transactions either because they are too young to own a credit/debit card and daddy doesn't wanna loan you his Mastercard for virtual stompy robots, or they are hesitant to sink real moolah into a game that is still technically in open beta. Okay fine, F2P games will always have the 'we don't wanna pay a dime but we want all the features!' crowd. No issues there. Just don't play the P2W card when it is clearly not the case to try and get your argument across.

Edited by The Platypus, 02 June 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Dmitri Valenov]

Suggesting that PGI remove one of the few ways that they can make money from this game is kinda ridiculous. Do you really think that they make enough on camo spec and cockpit items to keep the servers running?

[Deathlike]

Dmitri Valenov, on 02 June 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Suggesting that PGI remove one of the few ways that they can make money from this game is kinda ridiculous. Do you really think that they make enough on camo spec and cockpit items to keep the servers running?

With the pricing on the camos, you would think the answer is a straight out YES.

[Thomas Covenant]

You saying there is something wrong with Disney movies?

IV you summed up my premise in your own words and call it false, without stating why.

Mors good points. Just internet items and internet service are a large separation of feasibility to many.

Dmitri Valenov, on 02 June 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Suggesting that PGI remove one of the few ways that they can make money from this game is kinda ridiculous. Do you really think that they make enough on camo spec and cockpit items to keep the servers running?

Not suggesting they remove anything.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[Deathlike]

IV Amen, on 02 June 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

I have no problem with your suggestions. I do have a problem demanding them on false premises.

That's why I've been saying there is no true discussion being made here.

[Thomas Covenant]

Here's my Disney dream

I like the philosophy of a game, that no matter how wealthy you are out of game, everyone has equal chance of success inside. Yes it's skill based, yes people with better machines preform better, but beyond that the game itself gives you a equal human being experience.

I like that if we are going to explore this violent theme, it is self contained. I play Battlefield Heroes, one of the worst offenders of p2w I've had the pleasure to experience. I've played Maplestory, also p2w.

I just the idea of one game team going for it.

I think play to win can be fun.

I support an idea, Disney as it may be, I don't think its all out of reach, and hey, if we can reach Disney, for **** sake go for it.

[Sephlock]

I prefer my solution, as it is a bit more all-encompassing.

[Pater Mors]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

I like the philosophy of a game, that no matter how wealthy you are out of game, everyone has equal chance of success inside.

You miss the point that everyone does have the same chance of success in-game. There are no Mechs which are substantially more powerful than any other Mechs regardless of the currency used to purchase them.

[Deathlike]

Pater Mors, on 02 June 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

You miss the point that everyone does have the same chance of success in-game. There are no Mechs which are substantially more powerful than any other Mechs regardless of the currency used to purchase them.

You are not going to convince him. If he doesn't have the mech, it's P2W.

I've already offered a more palatable idea for everyone to benefit from, but no response from the imaginary poobah. It would simply be to allow Hero Mechs to be accessible and usable, but won't gain full benefits like the ones that have paid for their mech. Increased hero mech visibility and usage would lend towards others to pay for it in full, which is effectively a win-win.

Alas, this terrible Disney Dream feels a lot like Alice in Wonderland, and I'm speaking to special ed version of the Cheshire Cat.

[Thomas Covenant]

Not currently.

[Pater Mors]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

You are not going to convince him. If he doesn't have the mech, it's P2W.

I've already offered a more palatable idea for everyone to benefit from, but no response from the imaginary poobah. It would simply be to allow Hero Mechs to be accessible and usable, but won't gain full benefits like the ones that have paid for their mech. Increased hero mech visibility and usage would lend towards others to pay for it in full, which is effectively a win-win.

Alas, this terrible Disney Dream feels a lot like Alice in Wonderland, and I'm speaking to special ed version of the Cheshire Cat.

That's a very reasonable proposition. They could just make the stock variants purchasable via c-bills without the 30% bonus. If I could purchase 'Hero' status on any chassis I wanted I'd be much more inclined to spend some cash.

As it stands, I don't care that I will probably never play the Heavy Metal and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to drop the money on it. I'll still take them out in a one v one.

[Thomas Covenant]

I was still thinking over your idea death. Not sure if they should make it so you can't master them. I don't fully consider that as taking away the problem.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[Pater Mors]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Not currently.

That's right. Not currently. So you admit that there are no P2W Mechs in this game 'currently' then?

When they introduce a Daishi packed to the brim with clan weapons for MC only, I'll be shouting P2W right along side you. Until then, no.

[Thomas Covenant]

"Cheshire Cat."

The prankster is often regarded as the teacher in many societies and legends.

[Deathlike]

Pater Mors, on 02 June 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

That's a very reasonable proposition. They could just make the stock variants purchasable via c-bills without the 30% bonus. If I could purchase 'Hero' status on any chassis I wanted I'd be much more inclined to spend some cash.

Well, I doubt they would outright offer it like that... my base restriction (outside of the c-bills bonus and camo) is that you can't elite the mech (like the Heavy Metal on its debut BEFORE the Highlanders).. you could gain XP and/or get the basics mastered only. Paying for the mech would allow you to elite it. That would at least be the incentive. You can read my idea that's posted a few pages back, but that's the overall jist of the idea.

Link to the post I wrote in detail:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2408503

Edited by Deathlike, 02 June 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[Thomas Covenant]

Pater Mors, on 02 June 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

You miss the point that everyone does have the same chance of success in-game.

Not currently.

Well with elo maybe, that factor makes it ambiguous. But that could be used to justify anything as not pay to win as you get balanced according to your performance anyway. There will and to a small extent already are determined matches with community warfare coming and for now sinc drops.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 11:47 PM.