391 replies to this topic

[Endnuen]

Does the OP understand the concept of pay-to-win?
In what way do I win if I buy a hero mech? Do they spot more health? Armor? Faster? Better? Stronger?
What exact advantage do the hero mechs offer over the cb mechs?

[Mira Widowmaker]

Endnuen, on 11 June 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Does the OP understand the concept of pay-to-win?

Serious question?

[Endnuen]

Mira Widowmaker, on 11 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Serious question?

After having read some of his posts, yes, very serious.

[Mira Widowmaker]

Endnuen, on 11 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

After having read some of his posts, yes, very serious.

Let me give you the answer. It is quite simple. No.
He does not use the general idea of "pay to win", he uses his very own idea of it, and when called for that he quotes the developers on "pay to win" misinterpreting what they said to the way he thinks.

I tried to explain, I even tried to explain the necessity to use the common general definiton if you want to constructively communicate with other people... but I did not came through. I gave up... still ... could not bring myself to give up watching this thread.

On page 14 of this thread I have my discussion with him.

Edited by Mira Widowmaker, 11 June 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[armyof1]

Frankly I don't see how this discussion can move any further than it has. In the end it's a question of what you define as p2w. Some only consider more obvious things to be p2w like ammo with increased damage only for MC etc, the OP thinks smaller things like a mech variant only sold for MC that you think would work better for you than any other for CBills is also treading on that line. Personally I think both parties have valid points. And no just stuffing another mech with the same equipment in all kinds of differently placed hardpoints doesn't mean you can do the same build, it just means you can stuff the same kind of equipment in another mech, period.

Edited by armyof1, 11 June 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[Rodrigo Martinez]

I guess, OP mentioned kind of dominance of Hero mechs' above regular models, not its' exclusiveness when he taled about p2w. Especially with releases of last hero mechs. Muromets and Flame, which were standard of superiority of hero mechs above regular models, run the **** away with their XL engines from Misery (Stalker+ballistics slot OMFG!!!) and Firebrand (really? 2 energy and 2 ballistics slots at hands + 4 energy slots at torso? REALLY?!). Perhaps, Stalker and Jager pilots were asking Santa about it, like "Dear Santa, we were boating alot and our ELO is praised to the sky. Can you give us ballistics for Stalkers and enehrgy slots at Jagers' hands? PAAALLLEEEAASE?!". And kind grandpa of all kids - Santa - has made it. Of course, excluding Commando and Awesome pilots, who had ****** ELO, pffff. I don't have any other explanation of these hardpoints on these new hero mechs, and from the point of view of Stalkers' and Jagers' pilots, hero mechs actually entered p2w section


Btw, Santa, I was a good Atlas pilot from the times of public release. I won't ask much, still 2 ballistic slots but not in the same sidetorso - in the different. Oh yeah and 4 energy slots at hands, you don't even have to bother, it's already exists (AS7-RS). You can take away missile slots, but I wouldn't mind if you'd leave 'em. I think it isn't so difficult for you, there is nothing extraordinary, there is a Jagermech with this configuration already.

[Thomas Covenant]

armyof1, on 11 June 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Frankly I don't see how this discussion can move any further than it has. In the end it's a question of what you define as p2w. Some only consider more obvious things to be p2w like ammo with increased damage only for MC etc, the OP thinks smaller things like a mech variant only sold for MC that you think would work better for you than any other for CBills is also treading on that line. Personally I think both parties have valid points. And no just stuffing another mech with the same equipment in all kinds of differently placed hardpoints doesn't mean you can do the same build, it just means you can stuff the same kind of equipment in another mech, period.

I have much reached the same conclusion.

[Volthorne]

Thomas Covenant, on 11 June 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I have much reached the same conclusion.

Such a shame you didn't reach it 19 pages earlier.

[Rocket Puppy]

Thomas Covenant, on 11 June 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Have you piloted more than one mech?

Even if he hasn't its obvious you haven't piloted enough. I have 58 Mechs, All the heroes and 3+ of each chassis. The advantage is hero would give would be a 1-2% with most being much more inferior to the CBill version of the mechs in that chassis.

[Gaden Phoenix]

After reading this thread till page 6, all i can say is this is the most EPIC TROLL thread EVER.

And Thomas is the most EPIC TROLLER I have EVER seen. Just has to put this down. The skills involved in this thread that made it go all the way up to page 20 and continuing is beyong mastery. I bow to such abilities, I can never hope to do such as he.

Sadly I cannot force myself to read all the pages as my head is hurting from the super circular run around repeat of the same few points put in many multiple ways.

Frankly side A and side B will not agree on the basic points of this discussion so please nothing more should be said.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 11 June 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Disapirro]

So effing pay for it. Even if it was pay 2 win by your definition, so what.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Thomas Covenant, on 30 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Post #117: The "is there a problem" crowd, and the "how big of a problem" crowd
Post #124: Solutions

original post:

---

If I give you a sword, a bow, and spear which you have never used either of, and I tell you to train with them...

If you say you are best with the spear...

If we go back to when you had never used them, would you still be best with the spear?

No, you have never used any of them.

Another question, would you still be best with the spear, if you tried them again?

If yes, then I believe hero mechs are pay to win.



Two gladiators enter an arena. They are presented with weapons. These weapons have been used by gladiators over and over, all have been used to win with roughly the same amount. The weapons are said to be balanced.

One gladiator is funded by a wealthy master, he gets a few more weapons. No weapon that has won more on average than any of the others.

The less fortunate gladiator has a smaller selection to choose from. The gladiator notices that one of the weapons the other has that he doesn't, is one hes trained his whole life with. One he knows like the back of his hand.

A player loads up mech warrior, he is going to buy a mech. He looks through the list. He sees a hero mech, it has a unique loadout. Unfortunately he is unable to pay the $20 for it. No matter as all the mechs are balanced, so he is at no disadvantage.

But if he had played it, he would realize it is the mech he is best at.

Is it pay to win?

What are you smoking hehe.

Here is a better example of the difference between hero mechs and regular ones.

The Gladiators have two weapons selections. One is a Scimitar and one is a Saber. Both are about the same length and weight and have similar curving blades. Only real difference is one has a hand guard and one does not which is more cosmetic than anything. Neither Gladiator has used either weapon.

That is the difference between a hero mech and a regular one. Sure there are a few differences between a hero mech and its standard counterpart but they are mostly similar and until you use the mech, you aren't going to be skilled with it. Additionally, you are in a match with 15 other players, all with different weapons, many skilled in their use.

To be pay-to-win, hero mechs would have to confer some definative advantage over standard mech, the don't. Being able to buy one doesn't insure your going to be successful in the game.