391 replies to this topic

[JSparrowist]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

It's an issue I haven't seen addressed. I'm not even sure how it should be addressed.

There is no issue to address therefor it hasn't been addressed. How does one address an issue that doesn't exist except for in your confused mind?

[HiplyRustic]

You are completely wrong and your argumentation skills are terribad.

There are perhaps two Hero mechs that give a quantifiable advantage, and even that...with the triple UAC5 Jager now a reality and contending with the Ilya in that space...is arguable.

There is no nail requiring a hammer here...

[Thomas Covenant]

Niko Snow, on 09 June 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I personally don't think the situation described constitutes P2W.

I can understand that stance. Its in a very nit picky way I consider it so, but I really do see it as a pay only advantage to get into your best mech if its a hero.

[WarHippy]

Thomas Covenant, on 09 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I can understand that stance. Its in a very nit picky way I consider it so, but I really do see it as a pay only advantage to get into your best mech if its a hero.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

[Rocket Puppy]

Are you going to acknowledge the fact that your source directly contradicted your opinion?

[Iskareot]

CAPITALISM IN GAMING NO WEI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the planet.

[TB Freelancer]

All I see is a post dragged out to 18 pages of thinly veiled "pay to win" QQ'ing by people who see something they like but are too cheap to pay for it hoping that if they cry enough PGI might break down and let them get it for free. Never mind the fact that most hero mechs are arguably inferior to one of their standard counterparts...

...wretched. Just wretched.

[Sephlock]

Thomas Covenant, on 09 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I can understand that stance. Its in a very nit picky way I consider it so, but I really do see it as a pay only advantage to get into your best mech if its a hero.

Aside from the almighty firebrand, which mech allows for ths possibility though?

Even the Ilya Muromets doesn't quite fit because of the issues with low slung hardpoints.

Honestly, I think you may be seriously overestimating the power of Heroes. This is MW:O, not Fate.



*edit*

And if any Fate fans can tell me what music track starts playing when the action starts, I'd appreciate it.

Edited by Sephlock, 09 June 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

this P2W crowed of cheapskates and noobs stems from the end of CB. When a Centurion was removed from the game and made into the Wang. It was the only cent that could use an AC20, and was yanked to make room for the Wang (lol). When PGI did this, these noobs and nutjobs that do not have ANY reading comprehension, and make decisions based on "what feels good" instead of there brains. Went completely ape **** on them about P2W, and did NOT understand that the only way to make this P2W would be Clans or weapons that are MC only. Then it would be, but mechs and configurations do not make a pilot.

Case in point, Dragon pilots. A mech that is far inferior to ANY other mech in the game, its a 60 ton heavy, with a large CT and the armor of a medium. Very few guns on it, so its not a boat, yet there are people who do well, and get kills in these mechs. How? Skill, pure piloting skill, knowing how to use its guns, knowing when to shoot, when to dodge, and when to **** when someone shoots at you are all part of it. Knowing how to shoot, HIT, and keep those lasers on target WHILE on the run, is what makes that mech work. Its a 60 ton light mech, think and run it like that, and it will make you happy


Take the bottle out of your mouth, and Harden the **** Up

[Thomas Covenant]

Rocket Puppy, on 09 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Are you going to acknowledge the fact that your source directly contradicted your opinion?

If it did.

[Thomas Covenant]

If a mech is most compatible with your style, its your best mech. Well there's a 10% chance the mech that best does that is one of the hero variants. It doesn't matter if one or the other is a little better I'm not even talking about that.

Now I understand people have different play styles sometimes, so this would apply to your scouting playstyle, your brawling playstyle, your jack of all trades playstyle.

Sorry if I am not explaining it in a way you understand(not to insult your intelligence, just acknowledging that might be the problem) but this is really common sense stuff I'm talking about. I could get technical, but the advantage in having access to more unique mechs is simplicity itself.

[Volthorne]

Thomas Covenant, on 09 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

If a mech is most compatible with your style, its your best mech. Well there's a 10% chance the mech that best does that is one of the hero variants. It doesn't matter if one or the other is a little better I'm not even talking about that.

Now I understand people have different play styles sometimes, so this would apply to your scouting playstyle, your brawling playstyle, your jack of all trades playstyle.

Sorry if I am not explaining it in a way you understand(not to insult your intelligence, just acknowledging that might be the problem) but this is really common sense stuff I'm talking about. I could get technical, but the advantage in having access to more unique mechs is simplicity itself.

I think I see where you're getting confused. You're assuming that a person is an inanimate object (such as, oh I don't know, a sack of doorknobs?) and will always have ONE best 'Mech. You've failed to take into account that players are PEOPLE (you know, those things that number close to 7 billion? They walk, talk, work and simulate intelligence! Actual intelligence may or may not be included, make sure to check model# before purchase.) and people can CHANGE. We're not ******* immutable objects. What might be amazing for us one week could be mediocre the next. Thus, there can be no "best fit" for a person EVER, which means it can be inferred that Hero Mechs are indeed NOT P2W. Or you could actually drop the ********* zen ******** and get a clue from reading the rest of the thread (it honestly looks like you didn't even bother to read a SINGLE post that contained a counter-point to your nonsensical garbage).

/ f***ing thread.

Edited by Volthorne, 09 June 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Sephlock]

Yeah, people can adapt. I doubt any mech would ever be the perfect fit, so.... so long as the differences are within the margin of error, provided that none of the heroes are OMGWTF SUPERIOR to the non-hero mechs (which is iffy in the case of Ilya and Firebrand, I'll grant..) it should be fine...

[DEMAX51]

Thomas, your opinion on what constitutes as Pay to Win is inherently flawed.

You're saying that: If a particular pilot's best mech is a Hero Mech, is this not pay to win?

Short answer: No - because "pay-to-win" isn't determined on a per-person basis.

Pay-to-win infers that these items offer a distinct advantage from the outset. Hero Mechs are not inherently better than their brethren - they are just different.

Just because a person might perform better in a Misery than they would in a Stalker-3F, that does not make the Misery pay-to-win, because there are other pilot's out there who will be better in a 3F than they are in a Misery. And that pilot who's better in the Misery can probably still be efficient and win in plenty of the other free 'Mechs - I doubt there are any people out there who can ONLY win when they're in a hero mech.

Seriously, man.

If your point is "hero mechs should be available for c-bills as well" then go ahead and make that point, but stop trying to obfuscate the argument with shoddy metaphors and talk of "pay-to-win" gameplay mechanics, because you're just flat-out wrong.

Furthermore, if a person's best 'Mech is a Hero, but they're unwilling to pay money to play this game, I'm sorry, but they just don't get to pilot that Hero. PGI isn't making this game out of the goodness of their hearts, and IGP isn't publishing it for love of the MechWarrior franchise - their goal is to make money, and they need ways to do that. Offering unique - BUT STILL BALANCED - variants to people who are willing to pay for them is a great way to achieve that goal while still offering Free-to-Play players an entertaining and competitive game.

Edited by DEMAX51, 10 June 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[zraven7]

Hero mechs offer unique variants on given mechs, yes, but as the pool of mechs grows, then the exclusivity of Hero Mech builds will lessen considerable. One already pointed out that there are many things that you can do with a stalker that match or exceed what you can do with a Firebrand. there is a Jager that, in many ways, emulates builds previously only possible with an Ilya.

Many, many mechs in Battletech fall into the idea of "similar yet different". It allows you to find the perfect mech for you. Give it time, and it will become more this as more mechs are released.

[Sug]

Thomas Covenant, on 30 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

A player loads up mech warrior, he is going to buy a mech. He looks through the list. He sees a hero mech, it has a unique loadout. Unfortunately he is unable to pay the $20 for it. No matter as all the mechs are balanced, so he is at no disadvantage.

But if he had played it, he would realize it is the mech he is best at.

Is it pay to win?

Doesn't matter what mech he uses he's going to be fugging terrible until he gets like 500 matches under his belt.

[Whompity]

I'm sorry, Thomas, but in absence of statistical proof that Hero mechs are any more "win" than other CBill mechs, the P2W issue is moot and unprovable. We'd see them a lot more if they were more powerful. I don't see any more YLW's than any other single Cent variant, for example.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 10 June 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[Thomas Covenant]

Thomas Covenant, on 09 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

If a mech is most compatible with your style, its your best mech. Well there's a 10% chance the mech that best does that is one of the hero variants. It doesn't matter if one or the other is a little better I'm not even talking about that.

Now I understand people have different play styles sometimes, so this would apply to your scouting playstyle, your brawling playstyle, your jack of all trades playstyle.

Sorry if I am not explaining it in a way you understand(not to insult your intelligence, just acknowledging that might be the problem) but this is really common sense stuff I'm talking about. I could get technical, but the advantage in having access to more unique mechs is simplicity itself.

Volthorne, on 09 June 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

I think I see where you're getting confused. You're assuming that a person is an inanimate object (such as, oh I don't know, a sack of doorknobs?) and will always have ONE best 'Mech. You've failed to take into account that players are PEOPLE (you know, those things that number close to 7 billion? They walk, talk, work and simulate intelligence! Actual intelligence may or may not be included, make sure to check model# before purchase.) and people can CHANGE. We're not ******* immutable objects. What might be amazing for us one week could be mediocre the next. Thus, there can be no "best fit" for a person EVER, which means it can be inferred that Hero Mechs are indeed NOT P2W.

When I was 5, I changed a lot. I grew a few inches every year. Now being 24, that's not as much the case. I have a favorite color BLUE, doesn't seems to change at all. As far as play styles in mechwarrior, as I learn more about the game and try things I like there is a lot of changing, but I start to figure out what I like and it changes less and less.

Quote

Or you could actually drop the ********* zen ******** and get a clue from reading the rest of the thread (it honestly looks like you didn't even bother to read a SINGLE post that contained a counter-point to your nonsensical garbage).

/ f***ing thread.

Have you thought that maybe it's just that I look 'zen', in comparison to this?

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 10 June 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Thomas Covenant, on 09 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I can understand that stance. Its in a very nit picky way I consider it so, but I really do see it as a pay only advantage to get into your best mech if its a hero.

It's really a terribly flawed argument that assumes that there is one single mech that every player will be best in. Since this is not the case the argument falls apart.

[Thomas Covenant]

Sug, on 10 June 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Doesn't matter what mech he uses he's going to be fugging terrible until he gets like 500 matches under his belt.

Ok
"In time" he'd see that's the mech which was his best. Or hes already very familiar with mechwarrior and other mechs, so when he pilots it he can appreciate right away the benefits, rather than other mechs he didn't fit so well in.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 10 June 2013 - 01:06 PM.