391 replies to this topic

[Thomas Covenant]

Well its Friday, June 7th. I will try another shot, at being clear why I think hero mechs are pay to win, and comment on the major counter arguments.

First of all, I support MWO, and not just with the MC items I've bought(which includes paints, camo, and cockpit items), but I give a ****. I am involved, I have gotten to know a lot of people, and I am very clearly a fan and supporter of this game, so anything anybody is saying otherwise is full of it.

I understand that some see purchasing the hero mech as a or maybe even the way to show support, thats fine. But if you become aggressive to me and go into attack mode, just because I have something to say about them that isn't positive, I got news for you, you arn't supporting the game, you are doing the opposite. Listen to what I have to say or don't, but we are a part of the same community and respecting other's opinions is a lesson worth remembering from your kindergarden teacher, even if you don't particularly like or agree with what they have to say.

In other words, have a neutral tone, or get out. Your bumps are not so valuable that I care to listen how my opinion makes me stupid, or how I am so misguided from the righteous path you've found. Save it.

Love to hear counter arguments, if that is ALL you are offering. In fact I appreciate all the counter arguments and very thoughtful posts I have received.

---

Ok, so as far as making builds in other mechs as a surrogate. Well the problem is it is still a surrogate. Even if you copy the weaponry exactly chassis behave so differently with different speeds, armour, cockpit location, weapon location, mech quirks, any one of which could greatly affect which you personally perform best in.

Quote

Well its Friday, June 7th. I will try another shot, at being clear why I think hero mechs are pay to win, and comment on the major counter arguments.

lol I am burt

going to bed, I have discussed this topic for 15 pages, and a concise version would be nice, but so would some zzz.

I have not as of right now, seen an argument I haven't in some way discussed my counter for it.

[RG Notch]

The first rule in getting out of a hole is to stop digging. This goes for both sides. Zealots don't listen to reason, that's what makes them zealots.

[Mycrus]

zealot is hot btw...

[LockeJaw]

Put up a poll. Quit pontificating and watch your "suggestions" get crushed.

[Volthorne]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

In other words, have a neutral tone, or get out. Your bumps are not so valuable that I care to listen how my opinion makes me stupid, or how I am so misguided from the righteous path you've found. Save it.

Love to hear counter arguments, if that is ALL you are offering. In fact I appreciate all the counter arguments and very thoughtful posts I have received.

So in one sentence you say "agree with me or ****" and then immediately follow it with "but counter-arguments are okay" even though they're specifically designed to NOT agree with you? Does anyone else see a problem with that?

Not sure whether to bang my head on my desk in frustration or report this thread for trolling.

[Kdogg788]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Well its Friday, June 7th. I will try another shot, at being clear why I think hero mechs are pay to win, and comment on the major counter arguments.

First of all, I support MWO, and not just with the MC items I've bought(which includes paints, camo, and cockpit items), but I give a ****. I am involved, I have gotten to know a lot of people, and I am very clearly a fan and supporter of this game, so anything anybody is saying otherwise is full of it.

I understand that some see purchasing the hero mech as a or maybe even the way to show support, thats fine. But if you become aggressive to me and go into attack mode, just because I have something to say about them that isn't positive, I got news for you, you arn't supporting the game, you are doing the opposite. Listen to what I have to say or don't, but we are a part of the same community and respecting other's opinions is a lesson worth remembering from your kindergarden teacher, even if you don't particularly like or agree with what they have to say.

In other words, have a neutral tone, or get out. Your bumps are not so valuable that I care to listen how my opinion makes me stupid, or how I am so misguided from the righteous path you've found. Save it.

Love to hear counter arguments, if that is ALL you are offering. In fact I appreciate all the counter arguments and very thoughtful posts I have received.

---

Ok, so as far as making builds in other mechs as a surrogate. Well the problem is it is still a surrogate. Even if you copy the weaponry exactly chassis behave so differently with different speeds, armour, cockpit location, weapon location, mech quirks, any one of which could greatly affect which you personally perform best in.



lol I am burt

going to bed, I have discussed this topic for 15 pages, and a concise version would be nice, but so would some zzz.

I have not as of right now, seen an argument I haven't in some way discussed my counter for it.

So the jist of what you're saying is that Hero Mechs are overpowered and Pay2Win because they "might possibly" represent what you yourself "could" be best in. This does not make a mech variant superior to all others or pay2win. If you think that your personal style is best suited by something available as a hero mech than you are going to have to MC it up like the rest of us. It's measure of in game demand items and uniqueness to incentivize spending money on the game. You're saying that because you aren't allowed to try a certain mech to gauge its style without buying it that you are somehow deprived. This does not make sense.

-k

[Rocket Puppy]

Hero Mechs are not Pay2Win. I own all of them so I should know. A few of them are even worse than standard variants, The Deaths Knell, The Pretty Baby, and the X-5. The Fang is barely any different from standard dragons, except for the additional arm hard point.

The Misery offers no real advantage and most good players are ignoring the ballistic hard point and using it as a 4PPC Stalker that prints money. The 3F is better than the Misery as a PPC boat due to the better torso twist range.

The Heavy Metal has some nice arm hardpoints, but far from a game-breaking advantage. The Firebrand offers nothing exciting over standard Jager variants unless you really wanted a Rifleman. I use mine as a dual AC20 mech that prints money.

The Muromets is the only Hero to offer a real advantage over variants, and not because of triple UAC/5 ability, but due to being a relatively fast Dual Guass murder machine that prints money.

Being able to fire and forget is a HUGE advantage over sustained fire. I can choose where to take my damage by turning with fire and forget, not hope the enemy is too dumb to hit my torsos.

The SINGLE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE is the amount of time spent in a Mech, the more you play a certain chassis the better you do:

<a href="http://chattypics.com/viewer.php?file=PLS_STFU_tg7nff49ry.jpg" ><img src="http://chattypics.com/files/PLS_STFU_tg7nff49ry_thumb.jpg" alt="Chattypics" /></a>

Edited by Rocket Puppy, 07 June 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Kdogg788]

Rocket Puppy, on 07 June 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

The SINGLE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE is the amount of time spent in a Mech, the more you play a certain chassis the better you do:

Exactly. Every time I switch to something I haven't run in some time there's always an adjustment period. Take your pick of mechs and variants, I probably know someone who runs that mech well or even best among their roster of machines. The OP hasn't convinced anyone that hero mechs offer any advantage over the possibility of being suited for someone's particular play style and that MCing them makes them exclusive. That's the entire point!

-k

[Whompity]

In order for it to be Pay to Win, a hero mech would have to actually WIN more often (statistically) than the other variants.

I have not seen that. In absence of any kind of proof, OP is just a hypothesis.

[Kdogg788]

Olivia Maybach, on 07 June 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

In order for it to be Pay to Win, a hero mech would have to actually WIN more often (statistically) than the other variants.

I have not seen that. In absence of any kind of proof, OP is just a hypothesis.

In the absence of proof, OP is just an opinion. Locked out of hero mechs due to no MC, bitter about not being able to play them.

-k

[Whompity]

Kdogg788, on 07 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Locked out of hero mechs due to no MC, bitter about not being able to play them.

Another hypothesis?

[Kdogg788]

Olivia Maybach, on 07 June 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Another hypothesis?

Probably because he did spend on other things, but made his choice on what to buy don't you think? The entire thread is all about opinion and conjecture, so I guess I was due a post like that eh?

-k

[MeiSooHaityu]

OMG! The Hula Girl was a pay item only!!! P2W! P2W!

[Panzerman03]

OP, you are weird and your threads are weird. I'd tell you to stop posting nonsense, but...it's kind of entertaining.

[WarHippy]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Well its Friday, June 7th. I will try another shot, at being clear why I think hero mechs are pay to win, and comment on the major counter arguments.

First of all, I support MWO, and not just with the MC items I've bought(which includes paints, camo, and cockpit items), but I give a ****. I am involved, I have gotten to know a lot of people, and I am very clearly a fan and supporter of this game, so anything anybody is saying otherwise is full of it.

I understand that some see purchasing the hero mech as a or maybe even the way to show support, thats fine. But if you become aggressive to me and go into attack mode, just because I have something to say about them that isn't positive, I got news for you, you arn't supporting the game, you are doing the opposite. Listen to what I have to say or don't, but we are a part of the same community and respecting other's opinions is a lesson worth remembering from your kindergarden teacher, even if you don't particularly like or agree with what they have to say.

In other words, have a neutral tone, or get out. Your bumps are not so valuable that I care to listen how my opinion makes me stupid, or how I am so misguided from the righteous path you've found. Save it.

Love to hear counter arguments, if that is ALL you are offering. In fact I appreciate all the counter arguments and very thoughtful posts I have received.

I'm sorry but this post is the epitome of hypocrisy. You want people to respect your opinion, but you don't respect others opinions. Have a neutral tone and listen to me, or get out.

People are getting very tired of having to say the same things again and again with you, which is why a lot of the posts are getting border line hostile with you. Your arguments have been debunked repeatedly, but you keeping pushing forward with your nonsense. Just stop.

I do have a question for you though. If like you say someone's theoretical best mech is a Hero mech and therefore pay to win, then wouldn't a Hero mech theoretically be someone's worst mech and therefore pay to lose? So wouldn't it then balance out for the people not paying to win or lose? Sure the person spending money might have more options, but they are gambling to get those options and may just find their best mech was a free one all along.

Edited by WarHippy, 07 June 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Thomas Covenant]

WarHippy, on 07 June 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Your arguments have been debunked repeatedly, but you keeping pushing forward with your nonsense. Just stop.

I do have a question for you though.

To answer your question, I would have to push forward with my 'debunked nonsense' which you just asked me to stop.

I will give you an answer, and if you don't like it, I suggest next time, instead of calling me a troll, then proceeding to 'feed' said troll, you go away, as I will have my stance as long as it seems to me to be correct.

Quote

If like you say someone's theoretical best mech is a Hero mech and therefore pay to win, then wouldn't a Hero mech theoretically be someone's worst mech and therefore pay to lose? So wouldn't it then balance out for the people not paying to win or lose? Sure the person spending money might have more options, but they are gambling to get those options and may just find their best mech was a free one all along.

I would not connect those two no. If seven people have a bad day and seven people have a good day, that's still seven people having a bad day. If we make it so 14 people have a good day, that is a better scenario.

If seven are rich and seven are poor, the richness of the seven does not overrule the seven that are poor. There are poor people, that is an issue, and rich people don't erase it.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 07 June 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[WarHippy]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

To answer your question, I would have to push forward with my 'debunked nonsense' which you just asked me to stop.

I will give you an answer, and if you don't like it, I suggest next time, instead of calling me a troll, then proceeding to 'feed' said troll, you go away, as I will have my stance as long as it seems to me to be correct.



I would not connect those two no. If seven people have a bad day and seven people have a good day, that's still seven people having a bad day. If we make it so 14 people have a good day, that is a better scenario.

If seven are rich and seven are poor, the richness of the seven does not overrule the seven that are poor. There are poor people, that is an issue, and rich people don't erase it.

Yes, it was somewhat contradictory, but I was giving you rhetorical questions so you had something to think about. Seems you probably missed the point .

"I will give you an answer, and if you don't like it, I suggest next time, instead of calling me a troll, then proceeding to 'feed' said troll, you go away, as I will have my stance as long as it seems to me to be correct."
Ah yes, the old stick the fingers in the ears and pretend you can't hear someone until they go away trick. Works every time I'm sure.

As for your rich poor stuff I have no idea what you are talking about.

Edited by WarHippy, 07 June 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Thomas Covenant]

WarHippy, on 07 June 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Yes, it was somewhat contradictory, but I was giving you rhetorical questions so you had something to think about. Seems you probably missed the point .

Perhaps.

[RG Notch]

Thomas Covenant, on 07 June 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

If seven are rich and seven are poor, the richness of the seven does not overrule the seven that are poor. There are poor people, that is an issue, and rich people don't erase it.

Getting closer and closer to the real issue: pay. At least he's moved off the win part as that wasn't working. Now it's gonna be occupy MWO!

[Thomas Covenant]

If a hero mech equates as pay to lose, you have access to all the mechs that work for you.
If a hero mech equates as pay to win, you have less options than the scenario above without paying.

This is not balance but an imbalance.

I am sorry for you if your intent was to give me something to think about.

RG Notch, on 07 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Getting closer and closer to the real issue: pay. At least he's moved off the win part as that wasn't working. Now it's gonna be occupy MWO!

lol

I couldn't do that, as I have already bought some mc items. If I believed that I wouldn't have.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 07 June 2013 - 01:16 PM.