391 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Devin Takkar, on 01 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

So no. Hero mechs are not pay 2 win. And there is not the One Mech out there that unlocks a players true potential.

Yes there is. Its name: Urbanmech

[Thomas Covenant]

Deathlike, on 01 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Yes there is. Its name: Urbanmech

Duh!

[WildeKarde]

Well taking the spear example a hero mech might be like getting a spear with a point at both ends, it's unique compared to a normal spear but it still can only stab someone with a single point like the normal spear.

Hero mechs are different, they allow you to approach a battle with a different tactic. But they still have the same potential to win or lose depending on the player.

[Galenit]

First me must find a definition for p2w and real f2p,
i suggest the following:
Selling comfort options like booster, charslots (mechbays) is no p2w, it changes rl time for ig time.
Selling items without any ingame function being only cosmetic for real money is no p2w.
Selling ingame items with a (different) function for rl money, except there is a way to obtain it ingame, is p2w.

According to that, lets look on some items with ingame functions:

Do consumables have a function ingame? Yes, they give you unique onetime ingame abilitys.
Is there a way to get consumables without rl-money? Yes, after a lots of protest after their first presentation they changed it to this way.


Do hero mechs have a different function ingame? Yes, they have different hardpoints.
Is there a way to get heromechs without rl-money? Maybe by winning some tournaments, but generally no.

Are hero mechs p2w?
They give you options you cant have without rl-money.
They are p2w.


In this thread i read about soe and ps2, in this game you can get all no cosmeticsl with playtime.
But the exchangerate for rl-time (work to get money) to ig-time (time to get something without money) is very bad.
The same counts for sto (after playing the storyline it gets boring, dont know if there changed something), you may need weeks, month or years to get that lockboxship, but you can get it without rl-money.
Both are not p2w, but bad examples for milking f2p players and sto is the perfect example why lockboxes (or every other lottery) is bad in a game.

Edited by Galenit, 02 June 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[AlexEss]

All i get from this is that the OP like to put a few large words to use and really really really want his -9AH (aka the YLW testbed) back but he does not want to pay any money for it.

For that is the only mech that have had a (similar) version that have then been taken out of the game.

Well good news, use the BJ.

I will stick with my line that P2W is how Need for Speed world used to be. The best cars were real money only. And not in a "skip progression" kind of way. No they were flay out better. Faster, better grip or quicker of the line. It was not the question of being different, nope. Simply better. Hero mechs, in my mind are not P2W because there is nothing a Hero Mech can do that it is all alone about in it´s weight class. (Ok maybe the X5... But it pays for it so dearly that i can not call it close to P2W any way)

The Hero mechs... Yes i can see how someone with a zero tolerance would call them P2W. But if that is the case i am not sure F2P online games is your thing,

[Xeno Phalcon]

Bad analogy is bad, but i'll roll with it for the sake of your understanding. The problem is you are seeing yourself as the gladiator, and the weapons as what your buying.

Rather imagine there are no gold arrows, magical swords or holy hand grenades to give your gladiator, however you can buy a gladiator that is trained in swords, spears and bows or pay extra for a popular gladiator who gets extra donations from his fans but is only trained in swords, tridents and nets.

Thats basically what it comes down to, your not choosing between steve erkle and arnold swartzenegger. (WTB Arnoldmech)

[Galenit]

Jake Hendricks, on 02 June 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Well taking the spear example a hero mech might be like getting a spear with a point at both ends, it's unique compared to a normal spear but it still can only stab someone with a single point like the normal spear.

You can stab in front or behind you without turning the spear.
You can whirl the spear like a stick and stab with not only one end, the enemy has to look at both points and not only at 1.
2 advantages i find in a moment, if you want i can think about more ....

Xeno Phalcon, on 02 June 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Bad analogy is bad, but i'll roll with it for the sake of your understanding. The problem is you are seeing yourself as the gladiator, and the weapons as what your buying.

Rather imagine there are no gold arrows, magical swords or holy hand grenades to give your gladiator, however you can buy a gladiator that is trained in swords, spears and bows or pay extra for a popular gladiator who gets extra donations from his fans but is only trained in swords, tridents and nets.

Thats basically what it comes down to, your not choosing between steve erkle and arnold swartzenegger. (WTB Arnoldmech)

Its more like buying a Retiarii (the one with trident, net and dagger) that has changed the dagger for a sword and gets extra donations. By changing a dagger for a sword its no Retiarii anymore, its a new gladiator class. This new class would never have fought in the arena, they have rules for that ...

And a net for a bow in a short range arena fight i would have always done if it wasnt against the rules.
Its not a matching analogy, but with your example you paint a matching picture about heromechs.

Edited by Galenit, 02 June 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Thomas Covenant]

Jake Hendricks, on 02 June 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Well taking the spear example a hero mech might be like getting a spear with a point at both ends, it's unique compared to a normal spear but it still can only stab someone with a single point like the normal spear.

Hero mechs are different, they allow you to approach a battle with a different tactic. But they still have the same potential to win or lose depending on the player.

So they are balanced. But what if you would be better at using the double pointed spear?
What if you and another person fight, who is also better with the double pointed spear, but you only get to choose the spear, and he can can choose both?

The spears are balanced weapons, but that's not the advantage I am discussing.

Have you noticed mechs you are better or worse with than others? Do you think it is the same mechs for everyone?

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Gelion]

The double spear analogy does not work in this framework because the OP is NOT suggesting that hero mechs are better than the other mechs, it is purely from a player's perspective that the *could* be better, but will never know due to the inability to purchase them wit cbill currency. I would not be too annoyed if they develop a way around this, such as variant cbills, converting cbills to proper currency and whatnot, making sure as to make it obtainable only through a lot of play to earn the right to use the cbill bonus and not have to pay for it as others have done.

However, I am still shady upon the use of the words pay2win, as it does not connotate in this game what it would in others, say the example for need for speed or any game where real life money will give you an advantage due to what you can get is outright better than its free counterparts. I would just put this under making this game truly free2play.

[Thomas Covenant]

Those other games give a lot more clear example yes. I use the definition of pay to win as "the ability to purchase a tactical advantage".

While the mechs don't have (unfair)tactical advantages over one another, players will have more of a tactical advantage in piloting a mech that plays well to their style. If we make it so we take away some of those mechs from the free players, we create an instance of "the ability to purchase a tactical advantage".

Players will sometimes only be able to purchase a mech that best compliments their play style, for a given role.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 02 June 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Thomas Covenant]

Location: Sex Dungeon

WHAT!?

[Gelion]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Location: Sex Dungeon

WHAT!?

What of it?

[Thomas Covenant]

You have fun

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

You know what I think? This "truly free 2 play" doesn't pay PGI their salaries. You can roleplay the anarcho communist internet warrior all you want but money talks. Deal with it. The game is not pay 2 win and I am happy for that. You should be too.

[Thomas Covenant]

I've kind of let down my guard a bit in this threat. Once I started posting solutions, I realized that I think I was quoting the game maker's own plans from old ask the devs. I intend to present the question in the next one, as I don't think they mind repeating information and they might have more to say.

This said, do you find all or even some of my suggestions to be acceptable, and that would allow them to keep making their salaries? Would be interested to get a response, from the question, as intended.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I've kind of let down my guard a bit in this threat. Once I started posting solutions, I realized that I think I was quoting the game maker's own plans from old ask the devs. I intend to present the question in the next one, as I don't think they mind repeating information and they might have more to say.

This said, do you find all or even some of my suggestions to be acceptable, and that would allow them to keep making their salaries? Would be interested to get a response, from the question, as intended.

Links and reference, please.

[Thomas Covenant]

? the link? u don't see it? Its in your own quote.

here:

http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry2408345

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Thomas Covenant, on 02 June 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I realized that I think I was quoting the game maker's own plans from old ask the devs.

Links and reference, please.

[Thomas Covenant]

I don't have them.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Then don't justify your stand by developer plans.