649 replies to this topic

[Johnathan McKenna]

"They are Kerensky's Children. Enlightenment is their gift. They return to protect that which is unique among the stars; Terra, and humanity from its own hubris."

This is what we are. This is what we shall always be.

[Zarkstein]

None of the above.

Im my opinion the Clans where the most stupid idea FASA could think of, for the Battletech universe. Their weapons and mech components did not fit in the (classic) ruleset and killed game balance. Oh, and their fluff isn't that interesting either.

I simply ignore them on every level.

[MagnusEffect]

Wow guys. Didn't expect this much response in only a couple hours, but awesome! I guess it is only fair that I divulge, for the record, am a "barbarian" through and through. I like my music loud, my drinks cheap, and my women cheaper, but hey... I'm open to debate... buy me a drink or get me an easy lay and maybe we can talk.

Just don't expect to show up on my doorstep with guns loaded and expect me to go down easy

[Merf]

Tricky one between option 2 and 3.
Crusader to the core, but it is enlightenment we bring. For the body to heal the sickness and corruption must be cut away and discarded. The conquest is not about claiming a right, it is about assuming and realizing a duty (one of protection). Destruction to those that would keep us from this duty.

/Merf - Abandon all hope

[MagnusEffect]

Yeah, choices 2 and 3 were mostly just a nod to the "old school" warden vs crusader MW2 guys out there. If you know where you stand, then vote accordingly, of course

Edited by MagnusEffect, 09 November 2011 - 02:57 AM.

[Steadfast]

Typical macho men as they tend to start liking or respecting you only after you beat the ****** snot out of them although you are both inferior in skill and technology ... Darn, I hate them.
Other than that, heya its just a game everyone should play what she/he likes =D

Take good care all
~S~
Daniel

Edited by Steadfast, 09 November 2011 - 03:17 AM.

[rollermint]

I like the Clans. They were the first factions I learnt regarding Battletech (MW2, no surprise). They have very interesting history and philosophy.

The Clans are definitely a lot more interesting than the Houses which mirrors too much of real life so they appear sort of mundane and a little bland (i still like them tho). I mean House Davion(meh!) or Clan Ghost Bears? Diamond Sharks? Snow Ravens? Nova Cats?

The Clans are both tribal, sort of religious yet technologically superior and advanced. So interesting...

Funnily enough, I rather fight against the Clans rather than with them. Its a lot more exciting to fight against such a superior ,interesting and exotic foe.

Edited by rollermint, 09 November 2011 - 03:11 AM.

[taxman]

CoffiNail, on 08 November 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here trycksh0t let me educate a freebirth like you.


We do not enslave our isorla, in many cases the populations of the planets kept the same jobs, in occasional cases they would be tested to a job that may better utilize their abilities. Someone who is a skilled wielder but is unaware would be wasteful for them to continue to work in a warehouse, quiaff? The changes we did make had as long as the poor worked they were taken care of, fed, given shelter, clothed. As long as you provide for the Clan we will provide for you. The ones who would have problems are ones who were born in to a high ranked status as they now found themselves possibly in a different position, unless of course their skills warranted their position. The millitaries are disbanded and those who showed their warriors spirit, depending on the Clan can attain warrior status once more through dedication. Otherwise they serve as their bondsmaster's technician often enough.

You talk about lack of honor, but it is the Inner Sphere that has for centuries attacked civilian targets, bombed their infrastructure into oblivion. Please do not bother trying to point out Edo on Turtle Bay, as that was a isolated incident and the Star Colonel abore the Sabre Tooth (iirc) was repremanded. It was a unneeded waste of resource and personnel. I will point out Kentares where the Draconis Combine slaughtered the whole planets population. Which do you think is worse?



You fail to understand the exsistance the Clans had in the Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon worlds. When we first established ourselves we had a very limited population, and an even more limited warrior caste. The implemention of our Old being brought back to train out sibkos was using our core philosophy of waste not. If we waste the lives of our skilled, who is there to train the next generation of warriors? We also do not force Warriors to become Solhama, they are given various options of how to proceed, often being assigned to another caste where the remainder of their skills can be used. Of course being warriors their desire to serve their Clan often has them continue service in the warrior caste in hopes of ending their service with honor.



Most of the Clans do not think the way you seem to think they do. We realize that the lower caste are vital for making the well oiled machine that is the Clans possible, We the warrior caste are there to protect and uphold the lower caste. Do not make a mistake, the civilian castes honor us and understand that with out us, outside forces could destroy them, much like your inner sphere houses keep doing to each others innocent populations.

Five, Nicholas proclaimed, was the foundation
Upon which our true society was to be built.
Laborers to till the land, to do the tasks:
They shall have our undying gratitude,
For they are the muscle behind us all.
Merchants to buy and sell with fairness:
They shall have our commerce and respect,
For they are the bones upon which we are built.
Technicians to build and fix the machines:
They shall have our admiration,
For they are the fingers with which we grasp life.
Scientists to create and discover:
They shall have our awe and our attention,
For they are the mind of our society.
And above all, the Warriors who protect.
They shall have our cooperation and worship,
For they are the blood and soul of us all.

-- The Remembrance, Passage 67, Verse 26, Lines 21-37

The Clans, IMHO, endure a tough life. Every citizen in the clan is expected to participate fully in promoting the well being of the Clan.
Whilst a lot is written about the Warriors there is little information about how the Clans structure worked. However we do know that the Warrior Class endured rigorous training and that of every 100 Warriors only 20 made it through to pilot a Mech. The rest either died or became foot soldiers, tank pilots or even air support.

In my mind I imagine that the Clan's training scheme would be similar to that portrayed in the film Soldier, lead actor Kurt Russel.

Warriors were trained for Battle, their whole focus was never to loose. Their job was to protect the Clan and uphold the high ideals of Clan Life. As long as they had life in their bodies they would attempt to do their duty.

If one excepts the above perception as being close to how life in a Clan was to a Warrior, then we can begin to understand the Honor code, Zellbrigen.
Zellbrigen , was developed to prevent waste. It was designed to help settle disagrements and disputes with the minimal of damage to the Clan infrastructure.

So you can understand how in close combat and under Zellbrigen, to kill a pilot by shooting the cockpit out would be frowned upon.( The time and effort put into training the Warrior by the Clan) Legging an foe would not be however as it was easier to repair a leg than replace weapons etc. And would likely result in an act of contrition by that legged opponent. (Notice the use of the words Frowned Upon It is not considered dishonorable.) The Honor was to the victor for NOT taking advantage and ending the fight with a Headshot.

This was /is the situation between the Clans.
The Clans developed their own weaponry which turned out to be far supperior to that of the InnerSphere.

The difficulty in this is when The Clans encounter the InnerSphere. The InnerSphere have no ownership of the Clans Honor System. As such they often exploited the Clans Honor system and used it against the Clans.

The film the Last Samurai is a good example of the difference in idiology between 2 waring factions.

In the context of this or any other MechWarrior Game, there has to be a ballance in the game. You cannot, if you wish to create a relastic MechWarrior Universe, Change the concept of the idea. You must keep the imballance of the Clans including Zellbrigen. This in effect would ballance the drops as a Clan would never and should never out number the Foe on a drop. 3-1 would be a good offset. 3 InnerSphere to one Clan.

If as I suspect we are to be Playing as InnerSphere, I expect the battles against the Clan based NPC's to be hard and involve a lot of teamwork to complete.

I am looking forward to it even though I will not be able to pilot my trusty Nova Cat.

Our perceptions of the game may differ, but the love of it gives us a common bond.

[Stormwolf]

taxman, on 09 November 2011 - 04:10 AM, said:

In the context of this or any other MechWarrior Game, there has to be a ballance in the game. You cannot, if you wish to create a relastic MechWarrior Universe, Change the concept of the idea. You must keep the imballance of the Clans including Zellbrigen. This in effect would ballance the drops as a Clan would never and should never out number the Foe on a drop. 3-1 would be a good offset. 3 InnerSphere to one Clan.

I can agree with this, though the ratio would shrink the more advanced the IS becomes. By 3085 there's IS designs that can rival Clan mechs.

At any rate, people who play in a Clan faction without adhering to Zellbrigen don't really belong among the Clans to begin with.
This is why trials of annihilation were created.

[MausGMR]

Zellbrigen is all well and good vs a worthy foe, but forcing someone to stick to it regardless of circumstance is ridiculous, and incorrect. The fact is the Clans did not have to practice Zellbrigen vs Bandit caste, and after the first initial engagements would have treated the IS forces in a similar manner.

In gameplay terms, i'm sure they'll figure a way to keep everything balanced (probably numbers), but don't expect clanners to just run around gimping themselves following Zell against a team of people who do nothing but gang up and shoot them in the back.

[Atlas3060]

Excellent words CoffiNail, apparently my throthkin have said all I could say and more.

We bring enlightenment, true enlightenment, not that sham version that the Blakists spew on their people.
We minimalize losses, bid down forces, and honor the winners of Trials. People talk about our supposed enslavement of the lower castes but in reality their lives are not altered that much. The key difference is we do not draft children and poorly trained fighters, we train our warriors hard and they emerge ready for combat, and citizens can sleep soundly knowing we try to bid and fight away from cities.

Wardens protect their people, Crusaders have this misguided view that the Inner Sphere should burn as they march toward Terra.
The Bear watches over its cubs while the Dragon licks its jaws hungry for people.

[guardian wolf]

Seriously, all you inner sphere surats, need to shut the **** up and listen, Clan Wolf and the rest of the wardens weren't that bad, in fact they tried to get as many planets as possible in the beginning so that way you wouldn't have to deal with the Falcons, and other crusaders, to make your lives easier, sorry we lost the trial of refusal, but remember who sent the Wolf's Dragoons to prepare the inner sphere. Yes their original mission was recon, but then it went into preparing the inner sphere for invasion, and as for all of you calling us targets, you ever go against a binary without having a whole battalion behind you, you should try it sometime, two of your lances, against a binary, see how that works for you.

[Hangfire]

What are clanners? Judging by this thread, I'd say they were kinda touchy and overly sensitive

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Zarkstein, on 09 November 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

None of the above.

Im my opinion the Clans where the most stupid idea FASA could think of, for the Battletech universe. Their weapons and mech components did not fit in the (classic) ruleset and killed game balance. Oh, and their fluff isn't that interesting either.

I simply ignore them on every level.

out of game, I wholeheartedly agree.

In-game: The Inner Sphere was actually making strides towards peace during the 3040's due to a backlash over the war of 3039, this coupled with new tech and a new optimism lead many people to start considering a better world...then the ghosts of tragic past show up to subjugate by armed force what was never theirs. Tell me clanner, is not the Exodus one massive case of dereliction of duty?
General Kerensky , following the liberation of Terra, had a chance to stop the growing chaos and stabilize the Star League. What does he do? he gives in to defeatism and leaves; whereas groups like Star League Bureau of Communication, and Eridani Light Horse chose to stick around. The Light Horse specifically stating the IS was their home, and they will fight to protect it.
Aaron DeChavilier (my namesake) second in command to Kerensky during the liberation of Terra even suggested overthrowing the Great Houses in the aftermath of the Civil War. The SLDF had the political clout, arms, and tech to do it...instead they leave.

Look at it this way; Aleksander Kerenksy was Isuldur on Mount Doom

[Frantic Pryde]

The chosen!

Look for us to be stomping down your streets soon.

[Sajuuk]

The clans are ugly toads.

[Owl Cutter]

I was tempted to pick the "Wolf" option, as I like the Warden clans, but went with the one limited to in-universe fact.

You Crusaders can debate around in circles forever about whether "the" clanner philosophy is "better," but it doesn't change the realities of the Inner Sphere, such as how the common folk are all for insulating innocent civilians from the horrors of war, but the common folk don't rule their realms. Have fun trying to convince the 'Sphere that the only way to minimise the intensity and cost of war is to adopt a meritocracy based on martial prowess and literally crank out people as tools of war to be used up, while convincing the House rulers that they want to give up their power and wealth so they can be part of your civilian castes. Inability to handle this situation with anything better than trying to liberate us from our arrogant and war-mongering ways through military conquest, like the inferior dogs we are, is a display of weakness and lack of self-awareness. I hope you don't expect calling us poor, misguided fools to sway us any more than I expect anything I say to change your opinions or beliefs. (very little, in case I failed to make it clear)

Edited by Owl Cutter, 09 November 2011 - 10:18 AM.

[Haeso]

The warrior ideals of the clan appeal to me, the meritocracy is ideal.

However their strict code and inflexibility, being unable to adapt, that's not my style. I'm going to fight to win, to survive, not to follow a set of rules the guy shooting at me doesn't seem to bother following.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Owl Cutter, on 09 November 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

Have fun trying to convince the 'Sphere that the only way to minimise the intensity and cost of war is to adopt a meritocracy based on martial prowess and literally crank out people as tools of war to be used up, while convincing the House rulers that they want to give up their power and wealth so they can be part of your civilian castes.

wait, clan society is better how!?
also, the meritocracy thing...yeah meritocracy in clans only applies to their trueborn warriors.
example:
Im a freeborn tech, I test for the military; my training program is already dumbed down (waste-not society = waste no resources on freeborns).
Now that I am in the military, I am immediately placed in a second-line group because freeborns 'aren't skilled,'
Then I am given older tech, but expected to fight better than trueborns due to genetic profiling bias engrained in the culture, my failures only prove their point about freeborns.

Now some endgame stipulations: no matter how great my deeds as a freeborn I can never -
command a frontline star/cluster
command even large second-line regiments
be promoted to where a trueborn can end up (valid warrior, bloodnamed, saKhan, ilKhan) etc.

cross-reference!
Inner Sphere house army:
I am a tech, I sign up. I do well as a mechwarrior, so I get placed in either a new regiment
or placed in the replacement depot to picked up by a frontline regiment,
let's say I do well, I get promoted to lance leader.
I do even better, I get promoted to company leader.
and so on....

let's face, how much meritocracy can you have in a caste system

the eugenics in clan society has blinded them to anyone's actual worth. Also clanners; just because nicholas used eugenics
250 yrs ago to make warriors, this does not justify your bias and genetic profiling now

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 09 November 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[CoffiNail]

You know what I find funny... is how so many people think FASA did not have the whole Clan invasion lined up early on. Maybe not in 1985, but 1987+ probably, Look at the various articles on Wolf's Dragoons and more so Natasha Keresnky. They dropped a number of hints along the way that something just was not normal about the Wolf's Dragoons... I almost would not be surprised if the clans were devised fairly early in BT development and it just took some time for them to fully get fleshed out and thought about.