649 replies to this topic

[Tangent]

I more or less ignore them when gming. I've a few eds of the mw rpg laying around. I... really didn't like em. A bunch of OP tech that every power gamer instantly flocked to. The tabletop/rp game we had going with random mechanical failures, now that rocked.

[Sartris]

Youngblood, on 09 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

There are those of us who are post-3049 gamers who still think the Clans are kinda meh.

Count me in this group. Though they did save us from the 5th, 6th, and 7th Succession Wars

[DFDelta]

Yeah, and beating them up makes so much more fun then punching poor capellans or dracs.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Youngblood, on 09 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

The Clans are wannabe furries, some of whom enjoy being born in jars, and they all have aspirations of becoming the playground bullies of the Inner Sphere.

I don't believe anything I said there was untrue. Just very simplified.

The fact that they were given hyper-weapons was so they could be a challenge for veteran players. But I suppose fleshing them out allowed FASA to tap into a whole new generation of gamers....

We are not wanna-be anything. We are the epitime of evolution. We have moved away from your diseased culture that promotes greed, waste, corruption & self-destruction.

We were not given "hyper-weapons" we improved upon Star League era weapons. The fact that we did, while you did not because you were tearing each other apart in the Succesion Wars is no fault of ours. That is your problem. Bunch of whiners the lot of you.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they are so much better than us. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they have better weapons & mechs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 09 November 2011 - 06:08 PM.

[CoffiNail]

To those wondering the MK1 Omnimechs, Here is a site that displays them. http://battletech.ho...s_Mk1Omnis.html

My mech of preference is the MK1 Executioner Prime

[Pht]

You forgot to include the option "arrogant hidebound mental midgets who make good targets for toy theft."

[Reoh]

(1) - They're Kerensky's lost children, come home to learn a lesson.

Weapon systems activated.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Owl Cutter, on 09 November 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

Unless I have been misinformed, in which case I thank you in advance for correcting me, each clan is led by a Khan who proves his or her worth through mortal combat, Elementals end up heavily represented in government offices. I also wasn't talking about eugenics so much as artificial wombs, since in BT they're stigmatised and most people do things the old, sloppy, painful, hazardous way. To much of the 'Sphere, "canisters" are super-squickly. That's to say nothing of Canister itself...

Aaron, I was trying to highlight how hilariously futile the Crusader approach looks to me, and the fact that we humans are frighteningly tribalistic, especially where there are actual cultural differences to make it even harder bridge the gulf. I think it's been made clear that most spheroids have a problem with the way the Warrior caste works, and more importantly they way they think it works, and probably don't want to be led by them. Add some hostility carefully cultivated with that by the powers that be in the Successor States, and I have to wonder why any one can seriously expect the poor subjects to be swayed. I just have to think the Warden approach is much more sane, as it recognises that those in need of their enlightenment aren't going to instantly recognise the wisdom of their ways, since, you know, they are in need of enlightenment, and that coming in peace is probably gonna get more respect if you're allegedly all for minimising the horrors of war.

Not exactly. Most of the time the Khan picked, is a better politician than fighter. (the most classic examples are Elias Crichell & Vandervahn Chistu of the Jade Falcons, you should read Malicious Intent to fully understand what I mean) Elementals are front line warriors, but because of their size & strength they make **** good guards & MPs. (if you are British, MP in this case means Military Police & not Minister of Parliament)

Well given that there are only two views the Clans hold, the Warden view is the more "futile" of the two. I quoted the Great Father to someone else already to prove this very point & after just completing a 10 hour work shift I am not going to search for it to paste over right now. Sorry. Basically what the Wardens use as their "proof" that their view is right is something along the lines of (again forgive me if this is not verbatim) "Perhaps, one day, if mankind steps back from the abyss, we could return to protect and guide and serve......"

You do not have to be a lawyer or posess any legal training to see that the Warden philosophy is based on a pre-condition that was NEVER fulfilled. Perhaps is not a command it is more of a if you feel like it. IF is a reactionary word; we do x when they do y. So since the Great Father never said WE WILL GO BACK, he said Perhaps, & if we CHOSE to go back, the Sucessor States would have had to turn away from their self-destructive ways which was not the case; roll the Succession Wars, for us to protect and guide and serve. The Wardens have NO case. Do not pass go, do not collect Terra.

The beauty of logic is it cannot be argued. It cannot be denied. The words are there for all to read. It does not matter if you look at it upside- down, with a magnifying glass or a microscope, PERHAPS & IF are in the text.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 10 November 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Jaroth Winson, on 09 November 2011 - 06:06 PM, said:

We were not given "hyper-weapons" we improved upon Star League era weapons. The fact that we did, while you did not because you were tearing each other apart in the Succesion Wars is no fault of ours. That is your problem. Bunch of whiners the lot of you.

Except, you know, Kerensky took much of the know how and the items with him that plunged us into a technical regression that we had to deal with after he left. We were still designing new tech we just had to start from scratch unlike the Clans did.

And I don't care if they've got better tech, they still lost in the end.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Jack Gallows, on 10 November 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

Except, you know, Kerensky took much of the know how and the items with him that plunged us into a technical regression that we had to deal with after he left. We were still designing new tech we just had to start from scratch unlike the Clans did.

And I don't care if they've got better tech, they still lost in the end.

Prove that point.

That was due to treachery & deceit, not skill or tech.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 10 November 2011 - 03:48 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Jaroth Winson, on 10 November 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:

Prove that point.

That was due to treachery & deceit, not skill.

Considering that even if we found the pentagon worlds through treachery from your OWN PEOPLE, we still beat you in open combat during the Great Refusal, halting your drive to Terra and ending your Invasion once and for all. Only Wolf escaped it be abstaining from the vote, and I don't see them single handedly reviving the invasion and capturing Terra.

You lost, and a good part of it was based on skill of IS pilots. Clans aren't so superior without their precious tech advantages.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 10 November 2011 - 03:57 AM.

[Adridos]

Jack Gallows, on 10 November 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

Considering that even if we found the pentagon worlds through treachery from your OWN PEOPLE, we still beat you in open combat during the Great Refusal, halting your drive to Terra and ending your Invasion once and for all. Only Wolf escaped it be abstaining from the vote, and I don't see them single handedly reviving the invasion and capturing Terra.

You lost, and a good part of it was based on skill of IS pilots. Clans aren't so superior without their precious tech advantages.

And they underestimated us, they said we are the ones with worse tech and pilots. We showed them, that it was just because we didnt had the technology. We got our hands on that tech again, made mechs with it and sent one of the clans flying. They are only better in their arrogance.

Edited by Adridos, 10 November 2011 - 04:26 AM.

[Barantor]

Targets for my autocannon/s.

[Tanki]

Nothing more than another source of income for a merc like me.

[Youngblood]

Jaroth Winson, on 09 November 2011 - 06:06 PM, said:

We are not wanna-be anything. We are the epitime of evolution. We have moved away from your diseased culture that promotes greed, waste, corruption & self-destruction.

We were not given "hyper-weapons" we improved upon Star League era weapons. The fact that we did, while you did not because you were tearing each other apart in the Succesion Wars is no fault of ours. That is your problem. Bunch of whiners the lot of you.

Whoa, man. In character much? I'm speaking from a player's perspective, not a retarded science fiction character's perspective. Save your immersion for an RP thread.

Quote

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they are so much better than us. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they have better weapons & mechs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

And given that I was speaking from a player's perspective, I'd also like to add that Clan players usually think this^^^ when I beat them both in MW4 and on boardgame. There is something to be said about how the more primitive a faction is, the more childish its players are.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Jaroth Winson, on 10 November 2011 - 02:52 AM, said:

well cited stuff on clans ^^_

and yet I havent been proven wrong on the concept of clan 'meritocracy'

Jack Gallows, on 10 November 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

Except, you know, Kerensky took much of the know how and the items with him that plunged us into a technical regression that we had to deal with after he left.

**** right!

Paladin1, on 09 November 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

I'm wondering who you talked too, because I've spoken with a few writers as well and heard almost the very same thing.

I believe his name is Hugh Browne, he's over in Heavy Gear now. His callsign on the forum over there is Ghost Rider. He was
bitter about what happened to Battletech but he raised valid points; overall talking to him was enlightening and a great chance
to meet someone who actually worked on the thing I love so much.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 10 November 2011 - 10:21 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

arg wrong thread
why cant we delete posts? not the one above per se, but this one!?

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 10 November 2011 - 10:44 AM.

[Creel]

Chose the Warden answer.

[Mechwarrior Of Rock]

I don`t know much about the clans but I know I would join Clan Wolf if given the chance.

[fett]

Stormwolf, on 09 November 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

And why would you vote that?

I'm glad you asked...
Jar Jar is generally considered synonymous with when Star Wars when from having style and being cool, to being a "kid's genre". Remember when Star Wars was futuristic, but everything looked old and used? that was fresh, and a big part of the artistic style. Many say Episode 1 was when that genre "jumped the shark" from anything but a profit perspective.

To me, this is the same with the clans. Don't get me wrong, the whole mystery of Kerensky disappearing into the periphery with a whole society tagging along was one of the best plot devices of the genre. But having them return, and in the way they did,... took away many of the coolest aspects of battletech:

From gameplay the tactical advantages went away, its hard to exploit a mechs weaknesses if they dont have any (ie they all have good heat management, ranged weapons, many weapons, and they all run fast)

• it dramatically reduced the importance of heat management
  
• it removed the advantages of light mechs having significantly more speed
  
• it normalized the ranges of all the weapons buy making them ALL good. By that I mean even a medium laser has a long range.

From the "coolness" of the genre:

• Part of what is so great about Mechwarrior is the concept that they forgot technology. This is what made it so precious and why salvage and the mechanics were so key. It was like them restoring old cars over and over again. Well, the clans come along and guess what, they have advanced technology forward, and can build new mechs!
  
• The clan designs just look bad, boxy, or childish (Kodiak has claws?!) bring back the old artists and yes, keep ripping off Macross - I liked those mechs.
  
• The Clan "culture" reminds me of Klingons,...in fac t, they are a bad rip-off, you heard me. Should not Kerensky have come back with advancements in music, art, and all the things he was trying to save from war? No, instead they come back as Dolph Lundgren's character from Rocky IV. They are hell bent on war, somehow dumping on the very scientists that actually give their advantage on the battlefield (backwards!).
  
• The Houses are just more interesting. As is Comstar.
  
• Aff? Quiaff? C'mon! this isn't the smurfs!

Meesa think so.