103 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

DocBach, on 03 June 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

it really is a **** mechanic, and everyone who says how realistic it is and how armies fight to take over resource nodes - no, no its not. "Let me travel lightyears across space to set up a steam punk oil rig 1k away from the enemy oil rig, but if he stands next to it for a minute I will pack up and leave even though my entire force is at 100% operational strength."

Tee hee, I'll just chalk it up there with the realities of hot dropping onto appearing on a planet and starting up my 20-100 walking laser tank simultaneously with 7-11 people I've never met before.

(it needs adjustment in precisely how it operates, that is for sure- but I don't think reality is quite an argument we want to go with.- we need it to ensure that we can still win despite not being able to catch up to that last squirrelly enemy walking tank, and also give that squirrel something to do other than die.)

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Every time I see this topic, I assume (possibly wrongly ... I know what that does) that the complainers are the ones who carry (in my opinion) too many weapons and not enough engine ... lumber along at less than 50 kph hoping for the enemy to magically appear in their reticule and think that one-shot killing with a 60-point alpha is the only form of skill. You then wonder why, when a smart fast pilot sees you first, he doesn't want to get in range of you, and will maneuver around until he can find an advantage and go for the win.

Now, that said, I dislike accidental misses (we went one way, you went the other) that turn into cap races.

I love piloting lights ... I rarely play assault when I PUG because of the base cap mechanic. It doesn't make it any less valid, but without good teamwork ... scouting, maneuvering to engage the enemy in a position that favors you, covering each other, etc. ... the base cap mechanic can make it frustrating.

If I'm in a light with a team, and I spot a 6-7 mech blob clustered in one place, I'm going to report it and avoid you ... if I don't encounter any resistance, you're damn right I'm going to cap ... ideally just as my team mates are in a good position to attack.

IMO, when our base starts getting capped, the most of the team should start a tactical withdrawal back to the base (not turn tail and run, but use terrain and covering fire to maneuver back). One light RTBing is taking a huge risk. Often I have been the first back to base to find a streak cat (or a similar light mech killer) waiting to ambush, or to find myself seriously outnumbered.

I think it should take longer for the cap mechanic to work, but I also think a balanced and coordinated team should be able to handle it. If they can't they need to re-evaluate their tactics.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 04 June 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[Marj]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 04 June 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

...

The issue is a bit more complex than that. If you take a bigger engine you're just trading one weakness for another. Sure you'll be able to stop those pesky base caps...but what happens when you come up against a heavy team that assaults head on? You don't have the firepower to stop them. You're trading one loss for another.

Part of the problem is that the matchmaker doesn't balance for tonnage or role in a game that touts role warfare. If there was some way of balancing the teams so they were more evenly matched I think we'd have much better games. Even something as simple as class matching would be an improvement.

Another problem is the fundamentally flawed assault mode. The game puts 8 random people in 8 random mechs together and expects them to coordinate manouvres with text chat. That just isn't going to happen most of the time. Most pugs are here to shoot stuff, this isn't ARMA. That's why most fights happen around/over the middle of the maps. People move out in the hope of finding something to shoot at.

But what happens if people did play realistically? They'd move the bulk of their force to a defensive position no more than 500m from base and send out their scouts. Whoever loses their scouts then loses the match since they can't defend and attack at the same time (they can't cap) while the other team can. This doesn't mean you just get a lopsided fight at one of the bases either. It means the team with scouts is free to move as they please with their scouts to inform them of enemy movements while the team without scouts is pinned in place, forced to defend a static position. Any smart attacker would simply flank from different angles catching the defender's mechs out of cover and tear them apart. Disagree? Tell me how you think it'd play out.

I haven't run a lot of 8 mans but my win rate is so much higher when I play defensively it's ridiculous, it's not just due to a small sample size. People get bored, wander into my defensive line and get torn apart. I'm not some great tactician, I win because I'm up against normal people, not soldiers, and most normal people don't want to spend their leisure time just standing around waiting for something to happen. I end up winning because the other team ends up doing something stupid, not because I did something well. I can say from experience that defending certainly is effective, but it isn't fun.

How about a normal pug match? What happens there if people follow the "just defend" line? If your base starts getting capped after the fight in the middle has started then you've got to hope the right number of your random pugs turn around to go defend (assuming your team has mechs that are fast enough) so you don't weaken your front line too much and get rolled but still have enough mechs to stop the cap (or just chase off the single light which you may not even see thanks to seismic) with no knowledge of your teammates' capabilities and little knowledge of the enemy while using text chat under fire. Sure it all works out sometimes. Other times it fails miserably and blaming other players is not going to fix it no matter how many times people post "just defend" here, as demonstrated by the fact that these threads keep popping up with the same responses.

The current assault mode is not good. It is a placeholder. I think it needs to be replaced with whatever game modes that are being designed for CW as soon as possible.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Daeonwolf, on 02 June 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

'Then leave someone behind to guard the base!' you say. Really, how many of you out there would want to park at the base and miss out on the action? And even if someone was willing to 'take one for the team' and play babysitter, think how losing 12% to 25% (1 or 2 people) of your force 'just in case' would affect the situation out in the battlefield when you encounter the enemy. If they haven't left anyone behind, then you're out numbered.

Uh, if someone stays behind and they rush the base wouldn't the action then BE at the base?

I wouldn't "park at the base" but what I would do is try to keep eyes on whatever paths there are to the base, or if we push too far forward and don't "see" anything to move back so that we have a chance if they're moving towards our dz (a lot of times base capping because people over extend themselves).

There are several ways to get past it... otherwise, yeah, it's just a part of the game.

I will say you bring up a good point... why do we not have a new mode of game play by now. It's been more than a year since this has all started and we still only have 2 game modes?