103 replies to this topic

[vettie]

Lowridah, on 03 June 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Making 7 friends and playing 8 man is the most unbalanced gaming there is. 8man is nowhere near as fun as having a 4man and goin at it with random people. The lame setups and cheese you get in 8 man is pathetic. Its so bad the devs wont play it. You either go against 8 poptarts or 8 lights which base rush you. Losing to base cap in the first 2 minutes of game play is not your team screwing up either, its the fact the other team either is running light and has no chance in hell at winning or they hate the map which ive seen done.

Lets face it .. 95% of the people playing and getting base rushed hate the concept, the only other people who dare defend it are the ones who do it and relish in the fact they get a 25k reward at end match instead of fighting it out for 200k+

When did you last play 8 mans? Over the weekend, I played each night for several hours in 8mans and my team ran across 1 pop-tart team.1.

Most were actually pretty balanced teams, even more so than my team was.

As to the devs playing 8 mans? Friday night the Devs were on TwitchTV playing 8 mans. We had 3 game against them, winning 2 of the 3 with little to no pop-tarting involved from either side. I will say their 2 Spider pilots are VERY good in them. In all 3 games they were the last standing of the Dev team
*glares at Buckman*

8 mans is a different ball game, and the game is more intense, even tho CW is not yet and the battle are just that, battles. We have run across all types, those that are having fun and those that are very serious about it. Yes some use 'cheese', or whatever gets them the most bang for their buck and many use balanced teams with great teamwork.

But to say 8mans is nothing but pop-tarts and assault fest or 8 lights is just wrong.

I do agree that many times a cap rush is just simply because that person or persons doesnt want to play the map at hand. This may dwindle even more when we can vote choose the map to play.

[AntiBot]

vettie, on 03 June 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

There is a reward- if you kill a base capper you get a saviour kill and xp bonus for it

sadly though
u are better off whoring in the middle and racking up points (even if u kill nobody) than to sit in your base waiting for a light to turn up, who u most likely wont ever kill unless you are a light yourself (he will just run)

the point stands: scoring is a tool to promote certain gameplay

If people think the current state of (public) gameplay is kinda dumb, i say its because scoring is dumb.
U want people to defend and play smart? give 20 points for a loss and 100 for a win (0 for dmg or kills)
Just made up the numbers, but i can assure u just doing this will alter the gameplay radically

[Ursus_Spiritus]

Base capping/rushing is part of the tactics of the game and has been a tactic in warfare as long as man has been at war.

Capture/disrupt/destroy the enemy encampment/base and it will almost always cause for a disruption in supplies/command structure and especially moral.

Sun Tzu even states it is a valid tactic.

For those that cry over it, suck it up an deal with it. Don't want your base captured? Scout, defend, look for, find the enemy and engage them. Leave 1-2 units to defend/call for help, set up a defensive perimeter.

I cap and I have lost to base caps.

I have no sympathy for anyone that cries otherwise. We have light/fast mechs, we have cap accelerator for a reason.

[Weaselball]

It's been said before, but in case you missed it:

Defend your base.

Problem solved. Next.

[StonedVet]

zraven7, on 03 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

So, you have a solution, but won't choose it because "it's unbalanced"?

Yeah, somehow, I think it's more about you not wanting to learn actual tactics.

You just keep complaining, and I'll keep winning. Have a good one.

Im not complaining at all .. im stating a fact. Im not the OP here. Why wuld you do 8 mans when they are more unbalanced then the regular PUG drops? Doesn't make sense. Sounds more like you have nothing with substance to come back with. When it comes to tactics in the game im far ahead on that one .. Not gonna touch that one.

Weaselball, on 03 June 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

It's been said before, but in case you missed it:

Defend your base.

Problem solved. Next.

Its MechWarrior, not campwarrior

vettie, on 03 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

When did you last play 8 mans? Over the weekend, I played each night for several hours in 8mans and my team ran across 1 pop-tart team.1.

Most were actually pretty balanced teams, even more so than my team was.

As to the devs playing 8 mans? Friday night the Devs were on TwitchTV playing 8 mans. We had 3 game against them, winning 2 of the 3 with little to no pop-tarting involved from either side. I will say their 2 Spider pilots are VERY good in them. In all 3 games they were the last standing of the Dev team
*glares at Buckman*

8 mans is a different ball game, and the game is more intense, even tho CW is not yet and the battle are just that, battles. We have run across all types, those that are having fun and those that are very serious about it. Yes some use 'cheese', or whatever gets them the most bang for their buck and many use balanced teams with great teamwork.

But to say 8mans is nothing but pop-tarts and assault fest or 8 lights is just wrong.

I do agree that many times a cap rush is just simply because that person or persons doesnt want to play the map at hand. This may dwindle even more when we can vote choose the map to play.

Really? we average about 4 hours a night doing 8 mans.

[Whompity]

I don't have a problem with the cap mechanic, per-se, but some of the maps make it difficult to defend, given the cap speed. That said, it IS possible to have one or two units only stray as far from the base as halfway between the rest of the team and the base... can be difficult to pull off in a full-PUG group that doesn't listen.

All you can do to really defend against this tactic relatively reliably is fall back a bit yourself (as you are the only person you can direct 100% of the time, haha!) and "volunteer" if you see the entire group moving far from the base and leaving it wide open.

Stuff can still go bad... a team of lights can show up, or worse, but generally you won't get more than a single light who wants to split the team. Often they can be chased off, because they don't know who's behind you, and their main intent is usually to divide, not kill.

Usually.

[Dude42]

I wish I had a video of a match I played yesterday. It would illustrate the point here.

Sometimes you have to just turn your atlas around, and go save the base yourself. Then single handedly kill the rest of the enemy team.

About 2 minutes into the match I got the "Base is being captured" message. Was before any contact with the enemy aside from seeing one in the distance. I said "rtb all" so that there wouldn't be people left trying to snipe on the ridge, outnumbered. Half the team ignored me. Me and 3 others went back to base, there were 4 enemies capping(Atlas, Stalker, Hunchback and I think a Cicada, or maybe a Jenner.) Against me in my AS7-R, and 3 friendly lights(maybe one was a Cicada). We killed all of them, although at the cost of the other 3 guys that went back with me. The other 4 that ignored the "rtb all" and subsequent "what does rtb all mean to you?" had all died without killing a single enemy mech. That left just me vs the other 4 enemies. I killed them all and won the game.

So you see, all you need to stop a heavy cap rush in a PUG is to do 918 damage and get 6 kills. That's all. Stop complaining.

Edited by Dude42, 03 June 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[zraven7]

I'm getting really sick of the "It's MECHwarrior, not CAPwarrior!" line. First of all, the emphasis should be on the "WARRIOR" part. Second, "MECHWARRIOR" or "WARRIOR" does not mean "Ignore defense tactics because herp de durr"! Mechwarriors are warriors who implement Battlemechs. That's it. Who knows, maybe they like ballcaps and are "Capwarriors" too.

Point stands, you have 4 objectives, 2 of which are either/or. You can either destroy the enemy team OR capture their base. However, "Don't let your whole team die" and "Don't let your base get captured" are both NON-OPTIONAL objectives. If you are allowing your base to be captured, you are failing at a non-optional objective, and deserve to lose. Period.

[BlackIronTarkus]

zraven7, on 03 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

So, what you're saying is, you do everything to prevent base capture, but it still happens within two minutes.

Either you can't count time, or you over-estimate your tactical prowess.

Also, if you start to cap the base, and no one comes to stop you, and you stop because of that, you are willingly giving up the win.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo thats not what Im saying.

I recently started playing, and as I learned this game it happenned a couple of times. I found it to be a particulary bad mechanic/feature no matter if I tried to prevent it or not.

People choose their mechwarrior before a match start not knowing what map it will be or what kind of mech will be in their team. With that lack of knownledge there is only so much you can do as a solo player. I stated what I personnaly do to prevent it, it doesnt mean because I actually cared and prevented a cap that this mechanic isnt ****. Because it is ****.

You cheerleaders liking each other posts with your little yellow flower signature seem to have way too much free time and seem quite trollish and ignorant. You actually remind me of GOONS from EVE online but without the brain. All you do is defend whatever holy PGI implimented in the game, troll and like each other posts. You are exactly what this game doesnt need to move foward.

That feature is ****, thats my personnal opinion and it seems I am not alone to think that.

Edited by BlackIronTarkus, 03 June 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[zraven7]

BlackIronTarkus, on 03 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Noooooooooooooooooooooo thats not what Im saying.

I recently started playing, and as I learned this game it happenned a couple of times. I found it to be a particulary bad mechanic/feature no matter if I tried to prevent it or not.

People choose their mechwarrior before a match start not knowing what map it will be or what kind of mech will be in their team. With that lack of knownledge there is only so much you can do as a solo player. I stated what I personnaly do to prevent it, it doesnt mean because I actually cared and prevented a cap that this mechanic isnt ****. Because it is ****.

You cheerleaders liking each other posts with your little yellow flower signature seem to have way too much free time and seem quite trollish and ignorant. You actually remind me of GOONS from EVE online but without the brain. All you do is defend whatever holy PGI implimented in the game, troll and like each other posts. You are exactly what this game doesnt need to move foward.

That feature is ****, thats my personnal opinion and it seems I am not alone to think that.

...you should probably check the link on the sig and see what it's representing before you start taking stabs at it.

[Livewyr]

BlackIronTarkus, on 03 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

That feature is ****, thats my personnal opinion and it seems I am not alone to think that.

Noted.

Whining about something you can completely prevent is ****, that's my personal opinion and it seems I am not alone in that thought.

(Also, don't talk about ignorant trolling when you start insulting a philanthropic signature.)

[ShinVector]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 03 June 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

One good solution is defend base.
And the second is not to play 4-man 4 poptarts

Ohhhh... I remember you... Your Jenner and your other fast buddies got caught at least 3 out of 4 times..
You guys were not going to get our bases that easy !! FedRats !
For the Glory of House Liao !!

zraven7, on 03 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

...you should probably check the link on the sig and see what it's representing before you start taking stabs at it.

I rather not bother responding to 'BlackIronTarkus' from now on. He is a noob who can't even bother to click a link before mouthing off.

Edited by ShinVector, 03 June 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[zraven7]

ShinVector, on 03 June 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

I rather not bother responding to 'BlackIronTarkus' from now on. He is a noob who can't even bother to click a link before mouthing off.

You rock, and you make House Liao look good. ;-)

[MasterErrant]

it's part of the game it's boring. but at a basic level you need to be aware of your base and whts happening. it doesn't happen very often. smacking someones base to scatter the enemy I do itin pretty baby...WEG

There are a few permades that only do this. and I don't understand why it takes eight minutes or so and you get half the reward of a ten minute battle.

it's part of the game it's boring. but at a basic level you need to be aware of your base and whts happening. it doesn't happen very often. smacking someones base to scatter the enemy I do itin pretty baby...WEG

There are a few permades that only do this. and I don't understand why it takes eight minutes or so and you get half the reward of a ten minute battle.

[The Strange]

Xigunder Blue, on 02 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Ah, wouldn't the simplest way to solve the situation be a compromise? Remove the base timer and have the side with the most tonnage AT THE END OF TIME LIMIT on the enemies base be the winner of the match. Thus a base rush by light/med mechs would be fairly useless nor would a sudden rear march feel so necessary. The importance of the base in a match doesn't show up at all till the very end of the match - base fights anyone? Tactics perhaps since capping is only a way to take a mech out of the units total - yeah go ahead and cap, let your team go short a battlemech or two. It is not the base cap that is the problem, it is the TIMER! It was designed to force tactical decisions on players but has generated way to much controversy and aggravation. Just remove the timer for the time being until maybe returning it later in some fashion. Such as resource gathering while capped but not match ending. Makes for more combat - less frustration. Capping for resources (cbills/xp) will take nothing from other team but will make base capping competitive, not match ending till final second of match.

And what about those matches where half your pug team walks out and gets creamed? Now you have no chance at all of winning.

If you don't want to get capped, defend your base. It's not that hard to do. Don't whine for automated defenses, or mines, or other ways in which you don't have to worry about defending your base at all. This is not DM mode. There IS an objective to protect. Deal with it.

This must be the 100th or so thread about this same subject. "I want to fight, not defend my base". Defending your base will most likely lead to... a fight. "I drive an assault, and can't get back there fast enough". Tough luck guy.

[Marj]

Why are those that support capping so adamant that those who don't shouldn't get their own game mode?

[ShinVector]

Marj, on 03 June 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Why are those that support capping so adamant that those who don't shouldn't get their own game mode?

Did anyone say OP should NOT another game mode ?
I for one clearly said he should be given his Death Match mode...

What will PGI say ?? Sure... Likely in Solaris patch... After launch...
Does that answer your question ?

We are simply saying "learn to adapt and play the game better."

[Marj]

ShinVector, on 03 June 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Did anyone say OP should NOT another game mode ?
I for one clearly said he should be given his Death Match mode...

What will PGI say ?? Sure... Likely in Solaris patch... After launch...
Does that answer your question ?

We are simply saying "learn to adapt and play the game better."

Yeah...the problem is it is a game. Telling someone to play in a way they don't enjoy will just result in them leaving for another game they enjoy more. Not very productive. Would you change how you play because some random person on the forums told you to? It's not like these threads are new. And yes, the devs have said they won't be releasing any new game modes before CW comes out. I think that's a mistake given that I know people who have stopped playing as a result, but it probably can't be helped due to the tight schedule.

Still, if there was more support for another game mode the devs may listen. A poll would likely require thousands of votes to get their attention though. People that have already left don't vote.

[DocBach]

it really is a **** mechanic, and everyone who says how realistic it is and how armies fight to take over resource nodes - no, no its not. "Let me travel lightyears across space to set up a steam punk oil rig 1k away from the enemy oil rig, but if he stands next to it for a minute I will pack up and leave even though my entire force is at 100% operational strength."

[The Strange]

I remember a time when you bought a game, and played it the way it was. Sometimes this required you to learn to play a certain way, and use specific tactics to accomplish a goal or achieve victory. Now days it seems like everyone wants games to change to fit their specific play style.

DM mode would be lame as hell. There would be NO light Mehcs, and probably no mediums either. If you know for a fact that you are going to have to kill every opposing player, do you take a small, fast Mech that can get cored in one shot from a massive alpha build? No, you take the massive alpha build. People complain already that there are too many assault Mechs in the matches, and that it's "Alphawarrior Online", or "PPCwarrior Online", or what ever else. What do you think a DM match would look like? 8 assaults, vs 8 assaults. And if you had the nerve to take anything lighter, you would be looked down on as a blight on your team that was just a waste of space.

Then there would be the annoying guys that run off and power down to protect their precious little KDR. At least in assault you can cap and finish the match. I don't fancy being trapped in a match for 10 more minutes because some guy doesn't want to die in a computer game.