125 replies to this topic

[ArmandTulsen]

MaddMaxx, on 05 June 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Well then, they will have to provide ALL Mechs with JumpJets, otherwise, as you says, "the absolute best way to expose yourself from cover, shoot, and get back in", is unavailable to many.

But let me guess, you would not want "everyone" to have "the absolute best way to expose yourself from cover, shoot, and get back in", right?

You want to stop the crying?

Then provide all players with "the absolute best way to expose yourself from cover, shoot, and get back in".

You're more than welcome to buy a Highlander and participate in the "poptarting."The tactic doesn't make you invincible and it certainly isn't the easy-win, nuke button everybody is making it out to be.PGI pulled the parental equivalent of giving your kid exactly what he's yelling for, so he stops crying.I kinda wish they pulled that with ECM back in the day, instead of waiting MONTHS to make changes.

[Phantomewzick]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 June 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

JJs are giant reaction-mass thrusters that launch 20+ ton war machines, without any meaningful stabilizers, flight surfaces, or other such things, and does so with minimal warm-up time. The things accelerate super fast, and don't have any way to compensate for the thrust to try to maintain a steady sight picture.

Compare that to running, where a mech has gyro-stabilization and neurohelmet information to keep the thing steady on its feet. It doesn't matter how good your gyro or neurohelmet is if your feet are not on the ground, but when the mech can actually use its myomers and actuators to respond to gyro and neurohelmet inputs then it ought to be able to remain pretty steady.

I just want to point out that the "gyro" in a mech is essentially a series of giant reaction wheels, which would work regardless of being on land or in the air(or in space), but its all moot when you realize the mechs would just fall flat on their faces when they lit up their jumpets due to the asymetric thrust.

[DocBach]

totally for it. I'd even settle for a, dare I say it, cone of fire that increases the faster the shooter is moving and decreases depending on how they ease on the throttle.

[Keifomofutu]

Really bad idea. Any fast movement shake would mostly benefit assaults at the cost of faster lighter mechs. There already is reticule movement as you cross rough ground FYI.

The last thing this game needs is more benefits to taking slow assaults.

[DocBach]

Keifomofutu, on 05 June 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Really bad idea. Any fast movement shake would mostly benefit assaults at the cost of faster lighter mechs. There already is reticule movement as you cross rough ground FYI.

The last thing this game needs is more benefits to taking slow assaults.

should be based on the throttle, not the actual ground speed ie 2/3 throttle and under gives minimal sway/shake/cone/deviation/whatever moving over that is a little more shake.

[Theodor Kling]

DocBach, on 05 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

should be based on the throttle, not the actual ground speed ie 2/3 throttle and under gives minimal sway/shake/cone/deviation/whatever moving over that is a little more shake.

I would say it should depending an the ratio between speed and mass, modified by a chassis dependent multiplier. Longe/more stridesgive more shake, and less mass should increase shake as well. BUT some mechs are build for speed, some are not, hence that modifier. A Spider is build for hit and run, so it shouldbe able to do that. A catapult is not. Nor is a Jaeger asfar as I remember. A Hunchbakc on the other hand is..and so on.

[Volthorne]

Theodor Kling, on 05 June 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

I would say it should depending an the ratio between speed and mass, modified by a chassis dependent multiplier. Longe/more stridesgive more shake, and less mass should increase shake as well. BUT some mechs are build for speed, some are not, hence that modifier. A Spider is build for hit and run, so it shouldbe able to do that. A catapult is not. Nor is a Jaeger asfar as I remember. A Hunchbakc on the other hand is..and so on.

It seems to me you've got some things backwards... namely the stride length and weight multipliers. But I'm sure those were just typos, right?

[Theodor Kling]

Volthorne, on 05 June 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

It seems to me you've got some things backwards... namely the stride length and weight multipliers. But I'm sure those were just typos, right?

No. The thing about mass is debatable, since more mass means more inertia, so less shaking, but also heavier impulses from steps, so more.. but longer strides mean more momentum, more momentum at impact means more impulse, so more shaking. The shaking frequency should of course decrease with longer strides, but the amplitude increases.
Optimum would be of course if the engine could actually handle the physics ( which are not that complicated in this case, classical mechanics with only 2 possible points where the force acts on the body, but still) and apply the impulses from steps correctley to a good ragdoll of your mech. Since the last part is pretty complex, aproximating your mech as cylindrical with an apropriately set center of mass should be enough.
Although I logn for the full version, where mounting an AC20 on one arm and nothing on the other would make you bounce more to one side thennthe other, and loosing an arm would move your center of mass correctley

[Disapirro]

Being an ex-M1A1 tank crewman back in late 80's- early 90's, I would say that the crosshair not shaking and staying on target while moving is completely believable. The stability of the gun, despite the up/down and rotation of the tank was incredible.

[Dayuhan]

To be honest the shaking has not really affected jump-shooting for me. Pop-tarting is not really what I use jump jets for, but when I have fired my weapons while in the air I have found the shake to be a none-issue - if you shutdown your jump jets just before firing the shake goes away. It does not take much time to learn how to fire on the move, you may not be pin-point accurate (at least until Clan Targeting Computers are implemented) but you will hit your target.

[Atak Snajpera]

I agree with OP. There must be some gentle crosshair and cockpit swaying for better immersion. I've made simple demonstration

Edited by Atak Snajpera, 06 June 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[tenderloving]

Amsro, on 04 June 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

This doesn't solve pop tarting (the main reason this "fix" was implemented)

This doesn't stop that ( simply fire after you jj while dropping) bit it severely gimps brawlers.

I've spent tonnage on my bonus manuverability. I don't see what this artifical gimp brings to the game.

It shouldn't hurt brawlers- you're so close to your target that a little bit of jitter isn't going to cause you to hit a different panel at 200m. At 800m however, that jitter is multiplied 4x and you could miss completely.

[Milt]

i dont disagree with the idea, but the implementation was very poor imo. too many ppl are getting eye strain headaches and motion sickness to even think this was done well.

[Esplodin]

Monkey's paw - love it.

[SixBottles]

Amsro, on 04 June 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

This doesn't solve pop tarting (the main reason this "fix" was implemented)

This doesn't stop that ( simply fire after you jj while dropping) bit it severely gimps brawlers.

I've spent tonnage on my bonus manuverability. I don't see what this artifical gimp brings to the game.

oh yes it did. i've seen not a single heavy long range poptarting sniper mech since the patch... a couple of jumpng hgn's but they used it primarly as a defense meassure and in brawls

and you are right. you've spend tonnage on your bonus MANEUVERABILITY, NOT your ability to popping up behind a hill get your 1000m pinpoint triple erPPC shot and then fall back into cover to cool off.

Edited by SixBottles, 06 June 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[malibu43]

Atak Snajpera, on 06 June 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

I agree with OP. There must be some gentle crosshair and cockpit swaying for better immersion. I've made simple demonstration

I'm surprised no one else commented on this or "like"d it. Awesome.

To me, this game feels a little CODish at times the way everyone runs around at full speed while shooting. Encouraging players to move more slowly while firing or move to a good firing position quickly then slow down to engage would make the game feel more like that 2009 MW5 trailer. LIghts could still run around fast to "scout" and they could still fire relatively well on the move (with the amount of crosshair shake you simulated). And, like someone else mentioned, different weight classes or even chassis could have different quirks to make them more or less adept at firing on the move. The original Ghost Recon had all this, and I really like it.

Or maybe it would just encourage camping...

How did you simulate that, BTW? Did you just move your mouse up and down?

Edited by malibu43, 06 June 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Atak Snajpera]

Quote

How did you simulate that, BTW? Did you just move your mouse up and down?

yes I was moving left / right / up / down

Edited by Atak Snajpera, 06 June 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[Volts]

Thank god they didn't make this change a couple of months back.

The Harlem Shake MWO vids would have been HYSTERICAL.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Splitpin, on 04 June 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Lets see, you make a game, you take ways of playing that game out, missiles, pop sniping, lights, etc, what do you get left with, not much of a game. Everytime a whole playstyle gets nerfed out of the game, the game is poorer for it. Sure I can buy a dual AC20 Jaeger, cause that's all that's left, brawling, but noob-rush should never be the best way to play MechWarrior, let alone the only way.

But the A/C 20 is designed to work best at closer to brawler ranges than the other A/C's so yeah you're going to get in the mix in a Jaeger. You're going to get out maneuvered by anything with anything faster and with better torso twist then a Jaeger. So I'm not quite understanding how you feel that point is valid considering there is now a lot of range when it comes to mech classes on the field then there has been in quite some time.

An argument could be had that the best way to improve the "over" shake on lights is not to gimp the shake itself. But to either use a module to negate it (that only lights can use) or to keep what is current and weed out the bad light pilots from the good ones...

[Prezimonto]

As someone who's recently started piloting cicada's... the cockpit sways and the hud is motionless. It's the first mech (including a spider) where I feel totally thrown out of the game while piloting. Sway with movement would be incredible, and much less annoying than the weird dichotomy I'm seeing right now.