1217 replies to this topic

[Archon Adam Steiner]

Serapth, on 04 June 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

I love how this always seems to come up; whatever strategy you dont like requires no skill. LRMs require no skill. Poptarts require no skill. SRMboats or Streaks require no skill.

Do not try to insinuate that hitting the space bar and then pulling the trigger is hard... come on. LRMs? Lock and fire. SRM-boats and Streak boats? If you're right in someone's face, it's hard to miss (especially if you're locked-on and guaranteed to hit!).

There are tonnes of avenues for success in this game; those examples are the easiest ones. People, by nature, almost always follow the path of least resistance to success (or the appearance of success). There is a reason these things have all been 'flavour of the month' - because they are easy.

It's a good thing they're gone.

[Vaan]

DeaconW, on 04 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

You haven't played the patch...very few poptarts at all. One team that had them...got rolled. It clearly works...your argument is invalid.

Agree with DeaconW. Now really encounter few poptarts already which is improving.. Hope that the JJ shake reduction will help on those players with ''Motion Sickness'' too..

Edited by Vaan, 04 June 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Inhibition, on 04 June 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I've been playing since the end of 2012 and always read the forums daily,
but NEVER have I been prompted to make a post or create feedback. The addition
of shaking to "balance" jump jets pushed me over the line.

"Joined March 2013". Alt. account and post full of BS. Spare us and adapt.

[DeaconW]

Inhibition, on 04 June 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I've been playing since the end of 2012 and always read the forums daily,
but NEVER have I been prompted to make a post or create feedback. The addition
of shaking to "balance" jump jets pushed me over the line.

Jumpjets give a versatility to mechs, both an offensive and defensive instrument in combat. A screenshake reduces the creativity and any kind of variability with mechs. Playing a versatile mech game I prize various play styles the most; it's what prevents the game from being repetitive. There's an undescribable excitement from using different playstyles in jumpjets from one extreme to another (light/assault mech, or short/long range weapons).

But with nerfs to srm's, ppc's, light mechs (legging "balance"), why keep nerfing creativity in this game; now jump jets? I really like this game, but constant nerfing play styles makes me, and most likely, other players extremely frustrated. Wish developers would take an opinion like mine into high account, and really think about what they are producing in terms of player satisfaction. Even though I only repeatedly pilot one mech with jumpjets (catapult), I have tremendous sympathy for the playstyles that are effected greatly with an implemented shaking. It makes me even more disappointed thinking of the opportunities I lose in terms of trying different play styles.

I am against the screen (reticle shake, aiming randomness, etc.) with active jump jets entirely.
It's unnecessary. Stop stunting the creativity of playing styles in this game, please.

I always saw that those people saying things like "I won't buy premium" or "I will quit this game if ___ gets implemented" were acting a bit childish and crass, but now I fully understand their frustration. I really do.

Nice try...but you fell off the ledge when you implied the current poptart meta was "creative"...

MonkeyCheese, on 04 June 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

We get it people poptarts touched you in a bad place but this is just not the way to fix the problem

How appropriate that someone named "MonkeyCheese" supports the cheese builds...

[DeaconW]

OK...so I have played about 10 matches jumpjetting in my jenner...no headache. No nausea. I could still hit stuff with lasers. And I get seasick on small boats on the ocean so I figured I would be susceptible. So either there are a LOT of people who are somehow uber-sensitive to a visual mechanic that is less dramatic than LRMs shake and AC/2 shake which has been around for a long time, or there are really very few and a bunch of poptarders trying to get their low talent cheese meta back by claiming "injury". Hmmm...wonder which is true...

Edited by DeaconW, 04 June 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Genewen]

The screen shake is a bit too strong for my taste. The reticule shake together with the weapon spread are strong enough already to put down the poptarting, so please reduce the screen shake a bit.

[DeaconW]

Genewen, on 04 June 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

The screen shake is a bit too strong for my taste. The reticule shake together with the weapon spread are strong enough already to put down the poptarting, so please reduce the screen shake a bit.

Sounds like a reasonable middle ground...

[MonkeyCheese]

DeaconW, on 04 June 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

How appropriate that someone named "MonkeyCheese" supports the cheese builds...

Please for F sake stop being a jerk and go read my past posts in this thread as well as the ones outside here and you will see I'm a very obsessed light pilot as well as a awesome 9m pilot, and I have posted my builds many times in the battlemech guides and new player help sections. Not one of my 16mechs has ppcs or gauss installed, I'm not that kind of player.

I'm all for nerfing the effectiveness of poptarts if that's what pgi and the players wish, but this current direction is just hurting light mechs and people who are getting physical reactions to this new game mechanic.

I have already stated I'm all for KEEPING the bad aiming while jump jetting if that's what needs to happen, I can compensate with my longer than instant laser weaponry but the crazy shaking of the screen as well as the crosshairs needs to go. It was a good idea in theory but its just not right.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 04 June 2013 - 09:54 PM.

[Parliment]

leave it be

[Edwyndham]

I like the new mechanic.

I have mild epilepsy, though, and looking at the reticule as it shakes gives me some significant eye strain, enough to make me want to look away.

There's probably a way to mitigate this problem though, perhaps by turning down the opacity of the crosshairs while it shakes. I'll try playing around in an image editor tomorrow and see if I can do a mock-up animation or something.

Edited by zwanglos, 04 June 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[AceTimberwolf]

To be Quite honest It doesn't affect my Aim at all. True I don't know how people are getting motion sickness from staring at a computer screen with a image that shakes for a few seconds but My Aim is still as pinpoint as it was since all you do ignore the shaking reticule and aim where you were aiming and still hits fine everytime. Hell I started using SRMs again and they are hitting way too well especially when JJing

[DeaconW]

MonkeyCheese, on 04 June 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Please for F sake stop being a jerk and go read my past posts in this thread as well as the ones outside here and you will see I'm a very obsessed light pilot as well as a awesome 9m pilot, and I have posted my builds many times in the battlemech guides and new player help sections. Not one of my 16mechs has ppcs or gauss installed, I'm not that kind of player.

I'm all for nerfing the effectiveness of poptarts if that's what pgi and the players wish, but this current direction is just hurting light mechs and people who are getting physical reactions to this new game mechanic.

I have already stated I'm all for KEEPING the bad aiming while jump jetting if that's what needs to happen, I can compensate with my longer than instant laser weaponry but the crazy shaking of the screen as well as the crosshairs needs to go. It was a good idea in theory but its just not right.

Fair enough...but I drive lights as well and so far, it really doesn't both me in my jenner.

[Neutron IX]

DeaconW, on 04 June 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

OK...so I have played about 10 matches jumpjetting in my jenner F...no headache. No nausea. I could still hit stuff with lasers. And I get seasick on small boats on the ocean so I figured I would be susceptible. So either there are a LOT of people who are somehow uber-sensitive to a visual mechanic that is less dramatic than LRMs shake and AC/2 shake which has been around for a long time, or there are really very few and a bunch of poptarders trying to get their low talent cheese meta back by claiming "injury". Hmmm...wonder which is true...

There is a different motion sickness mechanic in play here than the one you describe, as Serapth has pointed out. This is where the visual sensation of "shake" does not coincide with the physical sensation of "not shaking". There is a disconnect in the frame of reference, and it is what makes films like Blair Witch (yes, I saw about 5-10 minutes of it and then spent about 30 doubled over hiding my head trying to get my stomach under control before leaving the theater) and Cloverfield (I didn't even pretend to try to watch this one due to my Blair Witch experience) cause such distress for people like myself.

Every single time I try to talk about it, I get many, many, many responses along the lines of what I've read in this thread.

"It doesn't affect me this way, so you must be lying or exaggerating"

"You're just 'faking' it so that you can indulge in a cheap tactic like hill humping/poptarting etc"

"L2P n00b, working as intended"

I try not to get offended, I really do (because, let's face it, getting offended on the internet is really quite a glorious waste of time), but please, I really do wish that just once, someone might stop for one second and consider my perspective without bringing these types of replies and gross assumptions of motive to the conversation.

I dislike hill humping and poptarting. I always have. I am on your side. When I talk about this issue, it is purely from the perspective of one who has been a 20+ year fan of the Battletech franchise, a lore geek and fanboy, who really just wants to play a game I love, in a setting I love.

I was concerned that being restricted to 1PV would make me feel sick, I voiced this concern, and though many players accused me and players that agreed with me of just being mad since we wouldn't be able to 3PV hill-hump and LRM people to death, PGI actually listened and created an amazing rendition of 1PV that both prevented hill humping, and was extremely playable for most of us who were concerned in the beginning.

With this JJ change, it's reliving the whole 1PV vs 3PV argument all over again. Complete with name calling, finger pointing and blamethrowing. And getting lost in the mix is the quiet few who are simply saying "wasn't there another way to stop poptarts, but maintain that beautifully smooth camera and gameplay that leaves people like myself humming along with the rest of the player base in happy unison?

I am on your side here. Poptarting sucks. I agree with you. But the current "fix" is really, really disappointing for people like me. It really is that simple.

[AceTimberwolf]

zwanglos, on 04 June 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

I like the new mechanic.

I have mild epilepsy, though, and looking at the reticule as it shakes gives me some significant eye strain, enough to make me want to look away.

There's probably a way to mitigate this problem though, perhaps by turning down the opacity of the crosshairs while it shakes. I'll try playing around in an image editor tomorrow and see if I can do a mock-up animation or something.

Yea if people are getting sick from the Crosshairs just change the colour and turn up the transparency as to not to focus too much of the center of the screen

[MonkeyCheese]

My mother cannot eat wheat but I can, my sister could die from eating seafood but I can eat all the seafood I want. Someone could get carsick where I would be fine.

Just because one condition or reaction dose not apply to certain people it doesn't mean it is a lie, how hard is it to believe that this is seriously a problem for people?

[Jan Spengler]

MonkeyCheese, on 04 June 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

We get it people poptarts touched you in a bad place but this is just not the way to fix the problem

Actually judging from the cries of despair from the poptarting community, this was EXACTLY the right way to fix the problem.

[DeaconW]

Rip Snorgan, on 04 June 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

I am on your side here. Poptarting sucks. I agree with you. But the current "fix" is really, really disappointing for people like me. It really is that simple.

Fair enough. Maybe they can find a middle ground.

[Chunkylad]

Crosshair related:
This thread is tl;dr for me to read through the whole thing, BUT instead of having the whole cockpit shake and jumble like an 8.0 earthquake on your back, add INERTIA to the arms and torso to make shooting much harder. Adding a strong pull downward if you are going up and a quick snap to pulling up when falling would make shots much more skillful (this case assuming you are vert jumping). If you are moving side to side, have it pull on a diagonal. Smaller mechs have smaller arms, so lower the inertia value compared to a highlander or phract.

Screen shake:
Now while I do enjoy poptarting (now coined droptarting (©) Mota - 2013), it makes it much tougher on light pilots even just for scouting purposes. With the mix of no gamma slider, distance blur, and the ever present film grain it is harder than ever for even me (a 20 y/o with 20/20 vision and a large monitor) to make out even silhouettes of mechs moving about, let alone the older members of the community.

I have enjoyed seeing the mix of brawlers and snipers together instead of an all or nothing, but these changes could have been implemented smarter that would not kill other aspects along with it. This change is like DDT, effective for the intended purpose, but having unintended side effects. For now, my poor treb shall stay benched and gather dust while the hunchie and centie shall be freshened up for the field!

[Lindonius]

Inhibition, on 04 June 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I've been playing since the end of 2012 and always read the forums daily,
but NEVER have I been prompted to make a post or create feedback. The addition
of shaking to "balance" jump jets pushed me over the line.

Jumpjets give a versatility to mechs, both an offensive and defensive instrument in combat. A screenshake reduces the creativity and any kind of variability with mechs. Playing a versatile mech game I prize various play styles the most; it's what prevents the game from being repetitive. There's an undescribable excitement from using different playstyles in jumpjets from one extreme to another (light/assault mech, or short/long range weapons).

But with nerfs to srm's, ppc's, light mechs (legging "balance"), why keep nerfing creativity in this game; now jump jets? I really like this game, but constant nerfing play styles makes me, and most likely, other players extremely frustrated. Wish developers would take an opinion like mine into high account, and really think about what they are producing in terms of player satisfaction. Even though I only repeatedly pilot one mech with jumpjets (catapult), I have tremendous sympathy for the playstyles that are effected greatly with an implemented shaking. It makes me even more disappointed thinking of the opportunities I lose in terms of trying different play styles.

I am against the screen (reticle shake, aiming randomness, etc.) with active jump jets entirely.
It's unnecessary. Stop stunting the creativity of playing styles in this game, please.

I always saw that those people saying things like "I won't buy premium" or "I will quit this game if ___ gets implemented" were acting a bit childish and crass, but now I fully understand their frustration. I really do.

Or how about we dally with the truth for a while?

Inhibition, on 04 June 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I've been playing since March the 7th 2013 (when I joined the forums) and have been enjoying my poptart highlander all this time.

I always read the forums daily, but NEVER have I been prompted to make a post or create feedback until you took
my ROFLSTOMP cheese build away from me. Now I have to open myself to return fire if I want to kill stuff and people keep hitting me with their lazorz and SRMS!

Edited by Lindonius, 04 June 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[Kibble]

Personally I don't see the shake to be an issue. Messed around with it in my catapult and jenner. Sorry, no highlander with JJs so I can't speak for that.

Jump Jets are a way to navigate passed rough terrain or get on top of buildings. When using it the way they are intended you are not focusing on the cross hairs and thus there is no nausea.

If people are having issues with nausea then the simple solution could be just the cockpit shake since the cross hair shake is needed to maintain that cone of fire.