1217 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Dude42, on 06 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the BattleTech universe. Mechs are not cutting edge pieces of high technology.

In fact, your average Battlemech is a piece of complicated technology that is hundreds of years old, and has spent most of that time in heavy combat, being repaired by people who don't understand it.

Imagine driving a 50 year old Volkswagen that's been in dozens of demolition derbies and repaired by drunken carpenters. Now repeat that cycle ten times.

You won't get a nice ride.

[Dude42]

Wintersdark, on 06 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

In fact, your average Battlemech is a piece of complicated technology that is hundreds of years old, and has spent most of that time in heavy combat, being repaired by people who don't understand it.

Imagine driving a 50 year old Volkswagen that's been in dozens of demolition derbies and repaired by drunken carpenters. Now repeat that cycle ten times.

You won't get a nice ride.

Exactly.

[Aggressor666]

Dude42, on 06 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the BattleTech universe. Mechs are not cutting edge pieces of high technology.

2013>>>>>>>>>>>>3050
advanced verses TODAYS tech that can already compensate for "shake"

[MonkeyCheese]

Please read dont just troll cus I dont enjoy this screenshake and feel sick from it, and remember I hate high alpha poptarts too, I am debating from a light pilot perspective.

First off where is the replys from pgi? I dont want to wait for 2 weeks for a patch before I can play my spider.

All I want to do is drive my loved spiders/foundersjen/raven4x without wanting to throw up, I just cant handle this shaking when 150kph jumpjetting lights never gave me any kind of problem before.

Secondly this screen shaking is just going to look stupid when 3pv comes out...

Rip Snorgan, on 05 June 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

I, and a few others have tried to illustrate how exactly this particular type of motion sickness works, and how it effects myself and many others. If you missed it the first few times around, I'm more than happy to repost it again.

Quoting myself from earlier in the thread...

"There have been a few of you who, upon having this distinction pointed out, have been rather understanding, (DeaconW has been pretty good about this for example), so I'll add another clarification in the hopes that it reaches a few more sets of eyes.

The problem that so many of us are having is the visual stimuli saying "shaking" while the physical stimuli says "not shaking". This is a fairly common affliction, and is the reason so many people have trouble with movies using hand-held camera (Blair Witch Project being a classic example).

The real world examples you cite above don't actually pose any sort of problem, because the stimuli matches and the inner ear can compensate. I would probably not get any sort of motion sickness from piloting an actual Spider and using my jump jets (I'm fortunate in this regard, as there are many who would have this issue), and yet the recent change to my virtual Spider renders it unplayable.

I hope you can understand why I'd find this frustrating, and why so many of us are here voicing our dismay.

Thanks,

Rip"

*edited to fix that odd formatting mistake...hehe.

It seems no matter how many times we tell them its not the same kind of thing they either dont read this giant thread or dont care and want their poptarting bashing at any cost.

Further on that topic

Syllogy, on 06 June 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

Pro tip: If you actually get sick, either use Dramamine, or don't pack JJ's.
...ERMAHGERD!

Once again im gonna have to say Shut the **** up about this bashing of people feeling sick, its not the same kind of motion sickness as a car/boat/rollercoaster I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY OF THAT yet this screen shaking really makes me feel sick, I wont give up my jumpjetting lights I have been playing since closed beta perfectly fine just for this badly implemented bandaid fix and its absurd to have this mechanic implemented when they could just change the aim without any kind of shake at all.

blinkin, on 05 June 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

it is not their fault that you are far too pathetic to overcome a little bit of reticle shake that ONLY happens while you are applying thrust with your jump jets.

Hey now no need to talk like that.


Im gonna post it again, this is how we FIX this entire problem, its simple remove ALL the shaking and just widen the targeting crosshairs and the cone of fire when jumpjetings (also for future masc) so that pinpoint aim is off for snipe ppc/gauss mechs but everyone else can compensate. aka poptart nerf, no sickness, lights can pewpew normaly again.

More information from my post here

MonkeyCheese, on 05 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I will state it clearly again for the trolls in this thread
I got nauseated from one match in my spider, and
I hate poptarts just as much as anyone else.

Look people its quite simple watch this video from the 42 second mark in HD full screen so you know what I mean, and dont go baggin the game just because of what game it is im trying to explain my point.

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=CqAhTjKacoY

You see that

1. The crosshairs get slightly bigger when the guy moves around

2. Not shown in this video but the crosshairs get quite large when running (could be used for masc)

3. Now the important part. When the character is jump jetting the crosshairs get very large and the cone of fire is as big as the gap seen, and you can see the gun wobbles around without giving a tiny insanely wobbling crosshair or the insane screen shaking

Its not a problem in that game because you dont jump snipe with ppcs aka sniper rifles here, the widened cone of fire when using longer duration weapons such as a laser or ac2 in mechwarrior can be compensated.

It is really that simple, when jumpjetting you can fire anywhere within that cone of fire and unless you are jumphuging an atlas there is a chance your instant shot snipe with ppc/gauss will miss.

This is a simple approach that solves the the following

1. Poptart aiming gets nerfed.

2. Mechs like spiders and jenners can sill aim quite well while jumpbrawling and hugging other lights or anything else.

3. No one will get this specific kind of nausea (I dont get car/sea/motion sickness but this made me want to vomit)

4. This same widening the cone of fire can also be applied to masc while sprinting so that there is no need to go and nerf masc after it gets implemented.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 06 June 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Aggressor666]

Dude42, on 06 June 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Exactly.

flawed logic lore or not is still flawed
light speed jumps and interstellar warfare would be impossible without tech far beyond anything in a battlemech
I cant even understand how themech can survive "hundreds of years" with all the combat they supposedly go thru
are none ever destroyed? do they just take a few hits and both sides run away? well thats not how my games play out at least....

[DeaconW]

IceSerpent, on 06 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I doubt that chilling out would have any effect - somebody who responds to people complaining of being physically hurt with "your tears are delicious", is beyond help IMHO.

I only said that for people who I really don't believe were having the effect...but thank you for your commentary and concern. For the record, I am pretty chilled out right now, thx!

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I think that the shake while in use is great, I think however that after letting off of the JJ's you should have some upward momentum. Examples: Lights would continue 10-12 meters, Mediums 8-10 meters, Heavy's 6-8 meters, and Assaults would be 4-6 meters.

[DeaconW]

Wintersdark, on 06 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I've determined that Elo is a myth, weight class matching a fantasy. The Matchmaker algorithm is entirely a function of pure spite and malice.

Dude...that is hilarious...and feels so true sometimes! To paraphrase Portal..."the ELO is a lie"...

[Delete F4]

DeaconW, on 06 June 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Willfully obtuse it is. Got it. Tell you what, go experiment with hill-humping for 100 matches (cause it is apparent you have experience with poptarting) and come back and report your results as to whether they are "the same". We'll be waiting here with baited breath. I promise.

BTW, "mwomercs" and "format c" have the same number of keypresses so they must have the same effect, right?

Protip: The way you described is a sub-optimal way to hill-hump...but keep doing it that way if you desire.

So now you admit your a hill humper that cant stand to take a shoot in the face from a jumping Sniper?
and if anyone would take a tip from you is a lost cause. Does Pro Mean = Per [REDACTED] Oddball? If so you sure fit the bill.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 06 June 2013 - 01:23 PM.
Removed offensive word

[Jaguar Prime]

I am so tired of people in this thread referring to jumpsniping or sniping in general as easy mode. Unless you can hit a target moving laterally from your position, at 900+m while you yourself are moving, with travel time weapons. You are not at a skill level to make any determinations about what is easy and what isn't.

I play both sides of the game and long range play is a lot more difficult than brawling. Of course it will seem easy to pilots who run out in the open, then die or stop and stand still to shoot, then die. I do not differentiate between hill humping and jump sniping at over 800m. At that distance they are about the same.

My problem is there have been two direct nerfs to long range play to accommodate players who can't hit the broad side of a barn at 500m. Then they have the nerve to come to forums talking about how much better the game is after the most recent nerf. Of course it is to you. The better players are forced to come play the game the way you play. Now you can rush in, get a few shots off, then die. Where as before you died without getting any shots off.

I wish the devs would decide on what level of gameplay they want to balance this game. Right now it's looking like the lowest level.

I'm going to say it here first. The next complaint to fill the forums will be about hill humping.

[DeaconW]

Jaguar Prime, on 06 June 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I am so tired of people in this thread referring to jumpsniping or sniping in general as easy mode.

Don't conflate the two...no one has claimed that sniping in general is easy mode.

Quote

I wish the devs would decide on what level of gameplay they want to balance this game. Right now it's looking like the lowest level.

Sorry you feel that way. Personally I would like every playstyle to have a role. Maybe you should play something more your l33t sp33d...like BF3 on Xbox360 or something?

[Arcturious]

atzilla, on 06 June 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Did it ever strike you that this is just working as intended? This isn't only a game about skill. Its about decisions. Better do not decide to trade while using jumpjets now. Your argument is like saying: OMG he hit me in the back, I couldn't shoot him = random... (BTW in CBT jumping adds +3 malus to you gunner roll, so indeed with the same skill, the not jumping mech should hit more often)

Actually, if anyone can dig up the quotes, the Dev's have stated in the past very clearly they want this to be a skilled shooter with no random factors. This is just as big a turn around as adding 3rd person to the game as it is a sign that the game is being dumbed down and turned into something like Heavy Gear or Hawken. They announce one thing, then change their minds on a major gameplay balance decision.

Also can people please stop trotting out these table top rules for jumping. If you want table top rules, play Mechwarrior tactics. If you want the +3 for jump jets, then surely you must also want the +2 for running?

You seriously are saying that you want every time your throttle is at maximum (which for most MWO players is 99% of the time), to have almost the same jitter as the JJ's do? So you want even less skill and randomised hit locations in the game? I'm not even going to bother replying to your "example" as you clearly haven't don't know the definition of random.

This is a major game design decision that I don't think the vast majority are clearly seeing the scope and impact of. They are so happy to have the one or two jump snipers gone that they are fine with making such a pivotal change to the direction this game is taking. Anything that takes control away from your mech is bad. This is game design 101.

As I've said, I'm already seeing a massive reduction in use of jump jets on the field. This means they are clearly failing the "fun" test that is the basic benchmark for game play.

[DeaconW]

Arcturious, on 06 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

As I've said, I'm already seeing a massive reduction in use of jump jets on the field. This means they are clearly failing the "fun" test that is the basic benchmark for game play.

No, they are back in balance by not being on 75% of the mechs in play...

[Dude42]

Jaguar Prime, on 06 June 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'm going to say it here first. The next complaint to fill the forums will be about hill humping.

People have been complaining about ridge humpers for as long as they've been complaining about poptarts. Where have you been?

Humpers will be taken care of with the boating nerf. Hopefully. For now just rejoice in the lack of poptarts.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 06 June 2013 - 01:27 PM.
Edited offensive word to poptart

[DeaconW]

Dude42, on 06 June 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

People have been complaining about ridge humpers for as long as they've been complaining about poptarts. Where have you been?

Humpers will be taken care of with the boating nerf. Hopefully. For now just rejoice in the lack of poptarders.

Nothing wrong with hill-humping...a tried and true, age old tactical maneuver.

[Arcturious]

Wintersdark, on 06 June 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Dude.

Just wait till you let go of the thrust before firing, and you aim just fine. Since the patch, I took my HM out poptarting just to see. It's harder now, because you can't flutter your jets to hover motionless in the air (which against good players was a bad idea anyways) but you can still fire with perfect accuracy. Just wait till you're falling.

Your examples are, quite frankly, both stupid. The jumping CTF and Jenner? They could have elected to fire from a stable platform on the ground. In both cases, the jumping player elected to launch himself in the air, and kept holding that thrust rather than just letting go of the spacebar and taking an accurate shot. If you're firing without accuracy, it's because you're choosing to do that.


All that said... yeah, keep the inaccuracy, but fix the shake. It's really headache inducing for me

They both could have chosen to fire from the ground? This is exactly what I'm saying. In order for it to be a fair fight, one has to not use Jump jets. Ergo, Jump jets have been taken out of the game.

If you are already airborne, and you see an enemy mech at the same time it sees you, you don't get a choice in if you are on the ground or not. Your shot will miss, their shot will hit. After this happens two or three times, you start "choosing" to not use your jump jets. After a while, people take jump jets off their mechs (like I have already). This is why I used the red CT example. You only get one shot, you have to make it count.

I also directly addressed the waiting to fire example. In an equal situation, by waiting to fire you are giving your enemy free shots. They can hit you during a period of time you are unable to return fire. A good pilot will be back behind cover before you even get a chance to shoot back while you wait for the jump jets to stop shaking.

I'm sure PGI will be looking at the stats and seeing a very sharp decline in the use of jump jets. As I've said already numerous times, they are basically going to have to make a call if they want jump jets in this game or not. In the current implementation, the answer is not. I also hope they don't go with reducing shake for light mechs. A change has to be balanced or we go down the rabbit hole.

Soon it will be AC20's when mounted on Cicada's generate more heat than when on Atlas's. Gauss mounted in K2 sides explode for 40 damage instead of 20. Can't you see where this kind of selective balancing leads? It's just very poor game design. Changes have to be balanced equally, or you start placing individual modifiers all over the place and throw your entire system out the window.

[Jaguar Prime]

DeaconW, on 06 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Don't conflate the two...no one has claimed that sniping in general is easy mode.

At over 800m Jumpsniping and hill humping are basically the same. Where's the difference?

DeaconW, on 06 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Sorry you feel that way. Personally I would like every playstyle to have a role. Maybe you should play something more your l33t sp33d...like BF3 on Xbox360 or something?

lol I haven't owned a game system since 1997. The only thing I've played that resembles a First Person shooter since I played Unreal and got migraines, has Mechwarrior in it's name. Honestly, you sound like one of those people in Swtor that complained about people leveling to fast. Maybe you should get better at MWO then maybe these stupid nerfs to playstyles won't happen.

[Syris]

To me the new shake is a great addition to the game. After the highlander came out the poptarting was to much to handle. It seemed that you had 4-6 poptarts a match. Good work

[Jaguar Prime]

Dude42, on 06 June 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

People have been complaining about ridge humpers for as long as they've been complaining about poptarts. Where have you been?

Humpers will be taken care of with the boating nerf. Hopefully. For now just rejoice in the lack of poptarders.

So basically you either play close range or don't play at all huh?

I admit, there were complaints but not as loud as the ones about Jumpsniping. Now with Jumpsniping gone, whats left?

[Aggressor666]

Jaguar Prime, on 06 June 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I am so tired of people in this thread referring to jumpsniping or sniping in general as easy mode. Unless you can hit a target moving laterally from your position, at 900+m while you yourself are moving, with travel time weapons. You are not at a skill level to make any determinations about what is easy and what isn't.

I play both sides of the game and long range play is a lot more difficult than brawling. Of course it will seem easy to pilots who run out in the open, then die or stop and stand still to shoot, then die. I do not differentiate between hill humping and jump sniping at over 800m. At that distance they are about the same.

My problem is there have been two direct nerfs to long range play to accommodate players who can't hit the broad side of a barn at 500m. Then they have the nerve to come to forums talking about how much better the game is after the most recent nerf. Of course it is to you. The better players are forced to come play the game the way you play. Now you can rush in, get a few shots off, then die. Where as before you died without getting any shots off.

I wish the devs would decide on what level of gameplay they want to balance this game. Right now it's looking like the lowest level.

I'm going to say it here first. The next complaint to fill the forums will be about hill humping.

anyone remember novacats in MW4? yeaaaaa you don't need JJ to poptart and everyone used 3rd person view so they could see OVER the hill and have their opponents targeted before they even exposed themselves