173 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Alex Iglesias, on 05 June 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

The orion wasn't intentionally pushed back, it hasn't been replaced

i just made the orthos for the quickdraw before the orthos for the orion, really thats it

Brian lied, electrons died.

Edited by FupDup, 05 June 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[Wolf Ender]

i'm not trying to whine about the quickdraw, but i just want to say i don't buy this explanation about wanting to diversify the meta.

QD is a 60 ton mech with the same 4E,2M + jump jets that the C1 already does (with 5 tons more) and the Trebuchet already does (except without JJs, but it can do 3E/3M with JJs which is arguably just as good)

So how is it that a mech that brings nothing new to the table is going to add diversity to the meta?

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 05 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

I see your point, but why would I buy a Quickdraw? I accidently spent my hoarded CBills on a Jagermech so I was going to pay cash for the Orion because at 75 tons it's a very special mech. I don't think I would even waste CBills for a Quickdraw. 60 ton mechs are at the nerfy end of heavy mechs. You can release these odd mechs, but that doesn't mean I will buy one. You want to sell some mechs for MC's? Release the Orion while it's still unique. Once the Clan mechs appear the Orion will have lost alot of it's shiny singularity.

i do so love the black and white tonnage means everything argument.
Hit boxes, hard points, quirks, twist, arm reflex and accel/deccel specs are all, of course, meaningless.

All those Cicada,Catapult and Jager Pilots should just hang it up I guess, since obviously they cannot compete in their own weight class.

Oh...wait a second......

[Sephlock]

Shumabot, on 05 June 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

In what capacity does releasing a mech with a hardpoint layout already duplicated in its own weight class, and which shares an exact weight with another mech, bring more variety than a mech with a relatively weight-unique weapon layout and unique total weight?

A energy/missile boat a smidge lighter than the catapult and a smidge heavier than the trebuchet with jump jets (shared by both of those) doesn't bring a whole lot to the meta games table.

Also, where's the art for it? What's the point of art releases and previews if you're just going to skip them on short notice?

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolf Ender, on 05 June 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

i'm not trying to whine about the quickdraw, but i just want to say i don't buy this explanation about wanting to diversify the meta.

QD is a 60 ton mech with the same 4E,2M + jump jets that the C1 already does (with 5 tons more) and the Trebuchet already does (except without JJs, but it can do 3E/3M with JJs which is arguably just as good)

So how is it that a mech that brings nothing new to the table is going to add diversity to the meta?

while I am not terribly enamored of Quickdraws (though nice art on this one), I am wondering what new and unique quality a poor man's Atlas RS brought to the table? Sure it is 10 kph faster, at the expense of 5 tons of armor and 10 heat sinks.

Color me unimpressed. Only thing I will be missing for now is killing Orions with my Victor next month.

[Deathlike]

Well, here's a quick breakdown of the current jj mech meta list we have shall we?

Only 2 of the 4 light mechs are dedicated jumpers.. the Raven-4X is the exception. 1 of the JJ mechs happens to be crippled beyond belief with its non-ECM variants.

The BJ was the 2nd of 5 mediums that are jump capable. The Trebuchet has 2 variants and so does the BJ.. so for the most part, that's kinda even. Remember that Trebuchet was the first medium jumper, and that the BJ was the next in line to be released.

Heavies prior to the QD addition already had the Catapult as the dedicated jumper, and the Cataphract as the lone jumper. So, it is kinda in the same position as the lights (2 dedicates jumpers + 1 exception).

Assaults got their first jumper in the Highlander, and now getting a second one back-to-back (for assault) in the Victor. I believe all/many of the Victors will be jump capable (someone feel free to tell me if I'm wrong on this).

So, In Bryan's "weak" defense, he's right. The problem however is that the Orion brings much more to the table than the Quickdraw... the Quickdraw infringes in territories that the Trebuchet, Catapult, AND Dragon are already in... (Trebuchets are still medium mechs, but are closely related in energy+missile, Catapults are generally a dedicated missile boat outside of the K2, which hitbox/cockpit issues) and the Dragon is the often mentioned "overweight medium" that is a true jack-of-all trades that isn't a good missile prone mech.

The Orion provides "something different" and perhaps is a "better version of the dragon" with its diverse (?) hardpoints. I call this change "overthinking" the meta.

In any case... it might OK in the formerly JJ-capable meta, but the Orion is far more welcomed in the "I want out of the JJ-sniping meta".

Edited by Deathlike, 05 June 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[StonedVet]

Ok so whats the REAL reason the Orion was delayed? dammit I was saving up C-bills for the thing too. Up to 20 mil and counting. BAH!

[FupDup]

Lowridah, on 05 June 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Ok so whats the REAL reason the Orion was delayed? dammit I was saving up C-bills for the thing too. Up to 20 mil and counting. BAH!

->

Alex Iglesias, on 05 June 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

The orion wasn't intentionally pushed back, it hasn't been replaced

i just made the orthos for the quickdraw before the orthos for the orion, really thats it

I posted it a few lines up. >_<

[That Guy]

This is a truly epic amount of QQ over a such a small thing (thats what she said!)

really, the orion is delayed so you get a new mech instead. and remember like a weekago when you all were weaping and begging to see the new mech art? remember that? well 2 mechs in as many weeks. be happy.

...and make better use of your forum rage and start making posts about how unbalanced Double Heat Sinks still are, and will remain so until AFTER LAUNCH.

[Sephlock]

They didn't want to give us a 75 ton mech because people would flock to it the same way people flocked to the Atlas prior to the release of the Stalker (and after the nerfing of everything that made the Awesome... well... awesome.)

[Tie Ma]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 05 June 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

where do you get this from? LOL

for a "unimportant" thread, this post sure is getting a lot of dev replys

Edited by Tie Ma, 07 June 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Ralgas]

While i dont like it i can undetstand it

Community - too many assaults!!!

Pgi - hmm maybe we should release the heavy mech closer to a medium than an assault this cycle.

Community - NOOOOOOO!!!

[AlmightyAeng]

Does it really matter WHY they pushed the Orion back? So we'll get it later on, it's still on the way.

PGI just made some huge changes to JumpJets. If I were them, I'd probably want a 'Mech with Jumpjets in a new weight bracket (60 tons) too. Right now they're going to be gathering metrics on how people use JJ-capable 'mechs, what loadouts, and see how their changes affected people's gameplay.

Throw another 'Mech for datum into the mix...why not?

Orion will be wildly popular...if they introduced that everyone who's been waiting and saving for it will jump into...and right now they want data about JJ. Orion would likely mess that up.

In my head, this is close enough to 'affecting the meta' that Bryan's response bothers me not at all.

Hope the QD is fun, PGI, looking forward to seeing what happens next. (leaves to go pilot his shiny Firebrand)

[DaZur]

FWIW.. since it's kind'a germane to the left-field discussion...

I've seen several post that comment on the QD's low armor and as such have demeaned it's battle worthiness. If I may... I'd like to point out the same arguments were raised regarding the Jager. And while not wholly incorrect... The Jager has thus proven to be a mech to be reckoned with as well as absorbing damage better than previously appreciated.

[Sug]

Padic, on 05 June 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

This rings true to me. I suspect that they have a "surprisingly large" number of mechs that are more-or-less complete.

At this point that number is 2 in my mind. 2 completely done mechs waiting to go would surprise me.

[ArmandTulsen]

Wait, so it's actually delayed?

Till when?

[badaa]

he couldn't find his belt

[Belorion]

Deathlike, on 05 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

That's a terrible explanation.



The Meta didn't need another jumper, which you already released with the Trebuchet, but also may also neuter the Dragon further. Of course, it doesn't help when you've nerfed jumping quite a bit, so it's actually backwards planning.

With the Orion, at least it has a tonnage not filled (75t) AND is a more iconic mech. It's a double whammy. It's not like the Awesome will get LESS popular because of it (it will be overthrown by the Victor due to the Awesome being generally inferior as is).

Failure to recognize what the meta is and what you did to the meta is always /facepalm worthy.

Have you thought for a second the meta game you are talking about and the meta game that Bryan is talking about are two separate things?

One of the things they have slated for CW are mech chassis that are cheaper for the individual houses. Maybe they needed a heavy chassis for Marik.

[Deathlike]

DaZur, on 06 June 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

FWIW.. since it's kind'a germane to the left-field discussion...

I've seen several post that comment on the QD's low armor and as such have demeaned it's battle worthiness. If I may... I'd like to point out the same arguments were raised regarding the Jager. And while not wholly incorrect... The Jager has thus proven to be a mech to be reckoned with as well as absorbing damage better than previously appreciated.

I don't ever remember low armor being a legit point. The Dragon sucks because of its hardpoints (for many variants) and it's CT is obscenely huge. The BJ is fine, but people think it's too squishy for whatever the reason, and it's still easy to core... it's slow for most people's tastes which is understandable. Armor is silly reasoning for this... at best it would replace the Dragon in roles that don't involve ballistics.

ArmandTulsen, on 06 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Wait, so it's actually delayed?

Till when?

Yes, and 3-4 months.

[Deathlike]

Belorion, on 06 June 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Have you thought for a second the meta game you are talking about and the meta game that Bryan is talking about are two separate things?

It would be nice if he clarified, but the reasonable assumption is that we have the jump-excessive meta (which has died down a lot) and it's following a back-to-back-to-back-to-back stack of jumpers (Highlander, Blackjack, Quickdraw, Victor).

Quote

One of the things they have slated for CW are mech chassis that are cheaper for the individual houses. Maybe they needed a heavy chassis for Marik.

I honestly don't take the whole faction thing too seriously.. I'm sure there was a post somewhere with a list compiled of mechs according to faction. I care more about mechs relative to the game design rather than the BT/TT fluff.